Sounds like the emperor threw away his clothes and got new ones. Pretty sad really. Makes me wonder if the flow of revenue from the Cayenne that they were banking on isn't happening.

 

Guys,
I do not think that the news is anything but what we expected. I do no tthink it fair to call PAG management names. They certainly have never lied. They do not need to tell us the whole story and I certainly do not know the whole story. It has been Porsche policy for years tomake their department fully accountable and profitable. Turning them into private companies, GmbH achieves this purpose. Yes they are 100% owned by PAG but are now separate entities. It will then be up to the new company to make a profit and invest its profits into itself. The problem being that Porsche has been out of serious racing for so long that their products available are purely based around the GT-3. Now maybe there are some great minds in the new company who will find a way. I am always the eternal optimist.
I believe for sure that the current management does not believe it needs to race to sell cars. This is backed up by the fact that PAG (not necessarily the dealers) sell everything they build. 911 and Boxster production is being cut back due to drops in sales but the Cayenne is making up the numbers. In fact sales in the USA have exceeded all expectations.
We just have to find other ways guys. There are never problems just solutions and believe me there are people out there working on solutions. Within and without.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

I admit, I was a bit hars and I'm sorry but that's 'cause I was(am) so pissed.

But wasn't it in -98 when they withdraw and said they'll be back in serious Motor Racing in couple of years?

 

In todays world one must read what they do not say more than what they say. It was clear to me in 1998 that Porsche felt they had achieved everything they wanted to and it was time to leave. I genuinely believed they did at the time intend to come back all new and refreshed. However the emergence of Audi into top flight racing was the catalyst for what we see now. One must remember that the largest single voting shareholder of PAG was the person behind the Audi move. I personally believe that the good Hr Piech has more to do with the current situtation than the management of PAG. The current management of PAG have to make money and not spend it and the time out of racing has increased the bill. I can certainly understand their point of view not that I happen to agree with it. The current chief is not a racer anyway and that makes the job even harder.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Just when I was hoping the Cayenne thing would get them back on track financially, and on track building sports cars with heritage, it turns out this isn't the case.

The brand image, inadvertantly created in the past by a few engineers and racers dedicated to building great sports cars, is now being exploited by bean counters and investors.

Funny that perhaps Porsche's greatest engineer and racer of the past, Ferdinand Piech, the man responsible for the most expensive racing program ever at Porsche in the late 60's and early 70's, now may be the one really behind the new non-racing Porsche company.

Sounds like the end of the sports car company we loved and the beginning of something new.

 

Greed... Even during poor economic times, the expectation is that the losses will come from anywhere but the investors... Another example of very short term thinking on the part of most western business, IMHO.

 

This started off as a good technical thread on a topic that has not really been discussed much.

Now we are talking about bean counters and lawyers! By the time it is put to bed the topic will have probably evolved to "what colour are the pinstripes in your upholstery?" as happens on the other boards.....

Sigh/Phil...

 

I think this is natural actually - when you look at the economics of the situation - Racing is a heritage for Porsche and so they must continue - but how. Actually this move has been know for a short while and is evident is everything that has happened in the last 12 months. I actually think it is a plus b/c of the changes that are already happening to the cars - Hint have you seen the suspension mounting point on the upcoming RS?...hint they are different than the GT-3's.....were are gong to start seeing more homologation ready modifications on the road cars which IMHO betters the breed all in all. After all how many GT-1's and 962's have youactually seen on the road - yes it's a Porsche but is it identifiable as such. Can they make money with it in production. the race shop was alway run as a lose leader, IPSO advertising/marketing/ etc. was it's main focus - for porsche this always mean Winning/reliability/power to the customer - but if they have a hard time telling which car is a 911 it's a waste of time. (think the NASCAR formula - you know which cars a Fords-Chevy's-whatever jsut by seeing them- the fans identify with the cars)
I can't see a small company such as Porsche making a multi-multi million dollar commitment for a car that has 0% chance of being see on the road, yes racing improves the breed but which one is really important. They are wisely making the $ count where it can do the most good - engineering of road/racing cars that they can build upon to sell on Monday. Why not let the privateers carry the banner (and the expense) in to the winners circle after all Porsche will reap the same sales rewards.
I believe that we will see a unique series of cars from Porsche that are the basis for the race winners of the future - after all the name of the game is to win and you can't win if you don't have the right equipment, and more importantly you can't sell that heritage if you don't win. They will win that is for sure - the only question is with what (GT-3, RS, Turbo's, Carrera GT, GT-3RS+?) what ever it is it will be in the show rooms.
Porsche Motorsports will turn a profit (not much, maybe, but still a profit) and we will have the benefits of having some of the most exciting/identifiable/race winning cars on the road.

Sorry for being long winded....
i guess we can rejoin our regular technical discussion now....
it is great to see the casting numbers still showing up there - and on the previous - high test cars (turbo, GT-2, GT-3 Mk1, etc) we have a really strong connection to the future.......

 

Dear Phil,
The original topic only related the 964 block to the GT-3. That is actually the end of the topic because there is a GT-3 board now for the technical side to be discussed. This is the 964 board and the topic went the right way for this board.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Thanks for the insight regarding thread direction Adrian. I agree the thread is not very 964, but i doubt if it was posted any where else on the forum, it would have gained the depth contributed in this instance by Cupcar and your good self.

I do like the technical threads. And i always check the 964 board as some of the best i think are spawned here. Very little is written on the 993 board about the RS. Plenty of good stuff is of course written about RS type mods. So i come here to see what is written about the 964RS variants as a lot was carried over to the 993 as we know. The 964 quirks and fixes interest me too. A lot of good DIY stuff here.

Deviating slightly, my car is a CH ver. I purchased it whilst living there back in 1999. Just a BTW.

Great List

BR/Phil...

 

Dear Phil,
Seeing as I spend the vast majority of my time just doing techical stuff I actually enjoy related but not quite so on techncial topic threads as well. The Carrera RS comes up quite often as well as does the Carrera Cup. The 964 RS 3.8 is actually closer to your 993RS but seeing as only 21 were built and I only know one person in Germany that owns one they do not come up that often.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

 

Must admit I feel a bit 'boardless' these days!

Brgds
Piers
993RS

 

Well then, Piers, just check back a few days against threads started by me and you'll find something of interest...

 

I can help you out and trade my 993 to your 993RS if you pay the transportation!

 

I think that Cupcar#12 has good points, this may not be the death of the racing department after all but the beginning of something great.

It's always been the GT racing program, not the prototype program, that has spun off the most relevant hardware for the street cars. The problem has been getting the racing parts, but now the racing department actually needs customers and may develop their customer base to include ME, not just racing teams.

Nismo is the performance arm of Nissan and produces a huge catalog of racing parts, the first of which we are getting here in the USA. Go here Nismo Parts Catalog for a look at the first stuff to come, make sure you scroll to the bottom of the page for the real stuff. Maybe we will get a Porsche performance parts catalog like this with quality parts that fit, like many other manufacturers have.

Here's hoping that with the racing department actually needing to make money we will see greater access to performance parts.