Which Brake Cooling Kit?
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 1
From: Highland Park, IL
Well, since you asked ...
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
Last edited by joey bagadonuts; Nov 20, 2007 at 03:49 PM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
heh heh, cool.
I was super surprised to see how fast my brakes faded at the last trackday. None of my cars have done that (M3, Miata). Could just be that I'm driving a little harder now than I had ***** to when I started DE's.
I was super surprised to see how fast my brakes faded at the last trackday. None of my cars have done that (M3, Miata). Could just be that I'm driving a little harder now than I had ***** to when I started DE's.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 1
From: Highland Park, IL
So were you riding the ABS into the corners? 
And if you're using street tires, you'll need to watch out for overheating. It will be characterized by a distinctly greasy feeling.
Remember, every time you improve one part of the system, you push the limits of the others.
And if you're using street tires, you'll need to watch out for overheating. It will be characterized by a distinctly greasy feeling.
Remember, every time you improve one part of the system, you push the limits of the others.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,470
Likes: 77
From: San Diego
I made some 964 brake ducts that are extended and taper down to a 2.5" hose size, they allow you to slide the hose on and secure it with a hose clamp, rivet, etc. Most of the ducts out there are cut off really short and don't taper down to a round section, so if you want to use them as they are intended you have to fabricate the rest of the duct.
I've got a set for sale over on Pelican:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=372882
this is what they look like:
I've got a set for sale over on Pelican:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=372882
this is what they look like:
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,312
Likes: 10
From: Roseville, CA
Well, since you asked ...
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 24,099
Likes: 3,206
From: New Jersey
Well, since you asked ...
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
I think the stock brakes are great. Track novices tend to over brake and immediately conclude that the 964 binders are inadequate, need cooling, whatever ... Why is that? I believe it's because most begin their journey towards faster lap times by braking too hard. I mean, that's the fastest way around the track isn't it?
Then they spend a great deal of time trying to drive the perfect line, hit their marks and maximize exit speeds (which actually IS very important). But only after they've mastered these skills do they realize that a few more tenths could be found in each corner by improving entry speeds ... smoothly.
So it's not until they focus on this last bit do they realize that slamming on the brakes won't work. They need to work on some of the finer points of their game--trail braking, weight transfer and maximizing traction--to get into the corner quicker which also means they need to ease up on their braking. But by then, they've already got Big Reds and are out $5,000.
My advice is to get some DOT4 brake fluid, PFC97's and stay out of the ABS. If you do that, your brakes will last a lot longer at the track.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Porsche Reveals Coupe Variant of the Electric Cayenne With a Fresh Look
Verdad Gallardo
10 Porsche Colors That Have More Personality Than Most People
Verdad Gallardo
Guntherwerks' Final Speedster Creation Is the Ultimate Porsche Restomod
Verdad Gallardo
10 Reasons I Hate Going to the Porsche Dealership (& the 1 Reason I Stay)
Joe Kucinski
Porsche Shakes Up The Nürburgring Lap Record Table Once Again
Verdad Gallardo
6 Ways the Porsche 911 GT3 S/C Redefines Performance
Joe Kucinski
10 Wildest Homologation Specials Porsche Ever Sold
Verdad Gallardo
Super Rare RUF BTR III Comes Out of Hibernation, Looking For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Porsche Opinions That Can Start a Fight
Joe Kucinski
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 1
From: Highland Park, IL
Good reminder, Ken. I keep a close watch on my pads and replace them once they're down to about 1/3 of their original thickness.
Anthony, I don't disagree with anything you're saying--yes, stock brakes are good, big brakes are better and $5,000 is probably a high estimate. But my point is that big brakes are not necessary for track cars nor is extra cooling. In my experience, the drivers who typically experience brake failure are novices who are either using the wrong fluid, compromising on pad choice or simply over working their brakes.
And not to be a wise guy but I think the fact that you can run an entire season without replacing your fluid once suggests that you probably have more brakes than you actually need. Right?
Anthony, I don't disagree with anything you're saying--yes, stock brakes are good, big brakes are better and $5,000 is probably a high estimate. But my point is that big brakes are not necessary for track cars nor is extra cooling. In my experience, the drivers who typically experience brake failure are novices who are either using the wrong fluid, compromising on pad choice or simply over working their brakes.
And not to be a wise guy but I think the fact that you can run an entire season without replacing your fluid once suggests that you probably have more brakes than you actually need. Right?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 24,099
Likes: 3,206
From: New Jersey
Good reminder, Ken. I keep a close watch on my pads and replace them once they're down to about 1/3 of their original thickness.
Anthony, I don't disagree with anything you're saying--yes, stock brakes are good, big brakes are better and $5,000 is probably a high estimate. But my point is that big brakes are not necessary for track cars nor is extra cooling. In my experience, the drivers who typically experience brake failure are novices who are either using the wrong fluid, compromising on pad choice or simply over working their brakes.
And not to be a wise guy but I think the fact that you can run an entire season without replacing your fluid once suggests that you probably have more brakes than you actually need. Right?
Anthony, I don't disagree with anything you're saying--yes, stock brakes are good, big brakes are better and $5,000 is probably a high estimate. But my point is that big brakes are not necessary for track cars nor is extra cooling. In my experience, the drivers who typically experience brake failure are novices who are either using the wrong fluid, compromising on pad choice or simply over working their brakes.
And not to be a wise guy but I think the fact that you can run an entire season without replacing your fluid once suggests that you probably have more brakes than you actually need. Right?
It is convenient to not have to worry although they never go unchecked. I agree the C2 91 on up has adequate brakes although I have friends who tend to warp their rotors and go through pads in 2 events. I have picked up several big red sets complete minus adapters for under $1200 so I think if I can do it so can others. I agree if it gets to be more than $1500 to upgrade it isn't necessary but for the price i have paid it was worth it. besides I have 3 cars with the same brakes so spare parts are never an issue.
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,430
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, NJ
Big brakes are not necessary for longevity at DEs, using the proper pads, some cooling, and a little moderation, but they are great for racing, and it's fun to outbrake GT3s. 
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, CA
So were you riding the ABS into the corners?
And if you're using street tires, you'll need to watch out for overheating. It will be characterized by a distinctly greasy feeling.
Remember, every time you improve one part of the system, you push the limits of the others.
And if you're using street tires, you'll need to watch out for overheating. It will be characterized by a distinctly greasy feeling.
Remember, every time you improve one part of the system, you push the limits of the others.
I am guessing the fact that I didn't have special fluid, wasn't using special pads ... these things got the best of me.
Donovan
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 1
From: Highland Park, IL
No, the RA-1's are still an R compound or competition tire, even with full tread. The distinction has more to do with it having stiffer sidewalls and grippier rubber than a street tire.
I'd tend to agree. Please make sure you get that sorted before your next outing. Stopping the car should be your #1 concern when it comes to safety and prep--that means true race pads and DOT4 fluid. Okay?
I'd tend to agree. Please make sure you get that sorted before your next outing. Stopping the car should be your #1 concern when it comes to safety and prep--that means true race pads and DOT4 fluid. Okay?
