Plus Sized - Rolling with the Phatness
10-24-2015, 01:50 PM
#47
Drifting
Thread Starter
Long time since my last update, but first a little...
[Dealer Rant]
My 964 would sometimes backfire when letting off the throttle but then it started sputtering and not running right under load and also backfire at idle. Since I had family visiting from Europe and I was looking for a new shop after the oil change fiasco, I decided to let Porsche Minneapolis get a crack at it. I dropped the car off, told the SA to make sure and call me before they got in too deep with the diagnosis, and I gave him all the maintenance history to rule out the obvious. A few days went by and I received a call that the tech “thought” it was a bad injector and that the bill was at $650, that it would take another $630 or so to fix, plus an additional $210 for a new fuel filter. More back and forth ensued and I called BS on the pricing because it seemed that they were double dipping on the labor when I asked for a cost breakdown, but since it was an outrageous situation I told the SA I was coming over to take the 964 back. That was when he told me it would increase the bill because they would have to put it back together, to which I called BS again, picked up the 964 and drove it home. To his credit, the SA reduced the fee to $450 but WAIT... There's more!
A couple of weeks went by so I could enjoy some much needed family time, and then after everyone had left, I decided to tackle the injectors. First task was to remove the blower but I noticed that the bottom bolt would spin freely but not come out. I found this strange since I had the blower off many times and I knew it usually comes out easy. It was after I removed the top bolt and got the blower assembly out that I realized the bolt was torqued so hard it broke the rivnut loose from the manifold, and it was now fused with the bolt. Bollocks and more on torque values later, especially when trying to disconnect the fuel rails.
Next was to remove the air box, so I put my hand towards the back to undo the rear clips but to my surprise the rear clips were non-existent, and there was a gap wide enough for me to put my fingers between the two halves of the air box. I took the cover and the air filter off, took all the nuts off, realized that some washers were missing, and then took the rest of the airbox off. I then found that the tabs on the rear of the box were broken as was one in the front, I found one of the rear clips (other one is still MIA) and some of the missing washers laying on the engine tin, and realized that the tech had relocated my throttle cable in a way that it was now pinched between the airbox and the TB. WTF!
I emailed the SA and asked him to replace the air box. I also mentioned the incorrect rerouting of the throttle cable, the broken rivnut and a broken sensor clip, but I did not ask him to fix this as I was not keen on having the tech touch the 964 again. The Service Manager emailed me back mentioning he was doubtful that his tech was responsible but I told him I was 100% sure since I had addressed the blower myself, and I bought a new airbox to replace the stupid K&N when I purchased the 964. The whole experience was complete crap and I really feel bad for those who have their air cooled serviced there. In the end, it was a blessing that I chose to take the car back or else I would have never known how badly they botched the job until much later. Too bad it cost me $450 for Porsche Minneapolis to F' things up, but lesson learned.
The interesting thing is that Porsche Minneapolis turned away all the air cooled business years ago and now that it is under new ownership, they are trying to get it back. Obviously, they have a very long road ahead of them.
[/Dealer Rant]
Back to our regular programming... Now that I had the blower and airbox out of the way, it was time to disconnect the fuel lines from the rails. Hot damn, the torque setting was out of this world. The tech had these connections apart since he switched the injectors around, but he must have set his torque wrench to the “Superman tight” setting because it took a huge amount of force to disconnect. Same with the bolts holding the rails to the manifold, crazy tight.
With everything disconnected, the injectors came out and here is what they looked like after 112K miles:
I then packaged them neatly and sent them to WitchHunter Performance for some refurbishing. They replaced everything (even returned the old parts), they gave me a printout with before and after values, and they numbered the bags to match the printout so that I could place the injectors accordingly. The only downside is that WitchHunter is a very popular outfit so it took a couple weeks from the time I mailed the injectors to when I got them back, so they may not be the best source if you are in a rush. Here is how the injectors came back to me:
Then it was time for a little paint to keep the injectors from corroding and here is the end result:
While they were drying I took the opportunity to install the fuel filter I ordered from Sunset. I followed Ricardo’s excellent writeup but used flare nut wrenches instead since I had them. Super easy job, just a little annoying with the power steering hose in the way.
Out with the old
In with the new
The airbox went back on, so did the blower (minus the bottom bolt
), and then it was time to fire the 964. Success! A quick visual check to make sure there were no leaks and I went for a drive. It is amazing how much smoother it runs and goes through the rpms, fantastic. Because I had not driven the 964 much and the gas left in the tank was a bit old, I went straight to my local BP and filled up on the good stuff.
I’m glad I did this, I saved some money (well almost
), I learnt something new and most importantly, I know the job was done right. The 964 runs really well now and I hope that we have a few nice driving days left in the season so that I can put some miles on before I put it away for the winter. Then, I'll focus my attention to the interior retrim over the winter.
[Dealer Rant]
My 964 would sometimes backfire when letting off the throttle but then it started sputtering and not running right under load and also backfire at idle. Since I had family visiting from Europe and I was looking for a new shop after the oil change fiasco, I decided to let Porsche Minneapolis get a crack at it. I dropped the car off, told the SA to make sure and call me before they got in too deep with the diagnosis, and I gave him all the maintenance history to rule out the obvious. A few days went by and I received a call that the tech “thought” it was a bad injector and that the bill was at $650, that it would take another $630 or so to fix, plus an additional $210 for a new fuel filter. More back and forth ensued and I called BS on the pricing because it seemed that they were double dipping on the labor when I asked for a cost breakdown, but since it was an outrageous situation I told the SA I was coming over to take the 964 back. That was when he told me it would increase the bill because they would have to put it back together, to which I called BS again, picked up the 964 and drove it home. To his credit, the SA reduced the fee to $450 but WAIT... There's more!
A couple of weeks went by so I could enjoy some much needed family time, and then after everyone had left, I decided to tackle the injectors. First task was to remove the blower but I noticed that the bottom bolt would spin freely but not come out. I found this strange since I had the blower off many times and I knew it usually comes out easy. It was after I removed the top bolt and got the blower assembly out that I realized the bolt was torqued so hard it broke the rivnut loose from the manifold, and it was now fused with the bolt. Bollocks and more on torque values later, especially when trying to disconnect the fuel rails.
Next was to remove the air box, so I put my hand towards the back to undo the rear clips but to my surprise the rear clips were non-existent, and there was a gap wide enough for me to put my fingers between the two halves of the air box. I took the cover and the air filter off, took all the nuts off, realized that some washers were missing, and then took the rest of the airbox off. I then found that the tabs on the rear of the box were broken as was one in the front, I found one of the rear clips (other one is still MIA) and some of the missing washers laying on the engine tin, and realized that the tech had relocated my throttle cable in a way that it was now pinched between the airbox and the TB. WTF!
I emailed the SA and asked him to replace the air box. I also mentioned the incorrect rerouting of the throttle cable, the broken rivnut and a broken sensor clip, but I did not ask him to fix this as I was not keen on having the tech touch the 964 again. The Service Manager emailed me back mentioning he was doubtful that his tech was responsible but I told him I was 100% sure since I had addressed the blower myself, and I bought a new airbox to replace the stupid K&N when I purchased the 964. The whole experience was complete crap and I really feel bad for those who have their air cooled serviced there. In the end, it was a blessing that I chose to take the car back or else I would have never known how badly they botched the job until much later. Too bad it cost me $450 for Porsche Minneapolis to F' things up, but lesson learned.
The interesting thing is that Porsche Minneapolis turned away all the air cooled business years ago and now that it is under new ownership, they are trying to get it back. Obviously, they have a very long road ahead of them.
[/Dealer Rant]
Back to our regular programming... Now that I had the blower and airbox out of the way, it was time to disconnect the fuel lines from the rails. Hot damn, the torque setting was out of this world. The tech had these connections apart since he switched the injectors around, but he must have set his torque wrench to the “Superman tight” setting because it took a huge amount of force to disconnect. Same with the bolts holding the rails to the manifold, crazy tight.
With everything disconnected, the injectors came out and here is what they looked like after 112K miles:I then packaged them neatly and sent them to WitchHunter Performance for some refurbishing. They replaced everything (even returned the old parts), they gave me a printout with before and after values, and they numbered the bags to match the printout so that I could place the injectors accordingly. The only downside is that WitchHunter is a very popular outfit so it took a couple weeks from the time I mailed the injectors to when I got them back, so they may not be the best source if you are in a rush. Here is how the injectors came back to me:
Then it was time for a little paint to keep the injectors from corroding and here is the end result:
While they were drying I took the opportunity to install the fuel filter I ordered from Sunset. I followed Ricardo’s excellent writeup but used flare nut wrenches instead since I had them. Super easy job, just a little annoying with the power steering hose in the way.
Out with the old
In with the new
The airbox went back on, so did the blower (minus the bottom bolt
), and then it was time to fire the 964. Success! A quick visual check to make sure there were no leaks and I went for a drive. It is amazing how much smoother it runs and goes through the rpms, fantastic. Because I had not driven the 964 much and the gas left in the tank was a bit old, I went straight to my local BP and filled up on the good stuff.I’m glad I did this, I saved some money (well almost
), I learnt something new and most importantly, I know the job was done right. The 964 runs really well now and I hope that we have a few nice driving days left in the season so that I can put some miles on before I put it away for the winter. Then, I'll focus my attention to the interior retrim over the winter.
10-24-2015, 04:38 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Nice write up Laurent. There's great satisfaction in doing stuff like this yourself. I wish I had the space and knowledge to work on my car but I have a great air cooled shop who takes care of things for me.
10-25-2015, 01:42 PM
#51
Race Car
interesting & scientific detail thanks Laurent! Invites a few questions if you don't mind 
So it was just 2 & 3 - also didn't realise you could paint the lower part like that .. any specific paint or priming needed? Any reason not to paint the top too?
In your first three pics of the injectors is that corrosion or carbon build up? And the one injector with all the cracks around the jet - was that one of the problem ones?
So it was just 2 & 3 - also didn't realise you could paint the lower part like that .. any specific paint or priming needed? Any reason not to paint the top too?
In your first three pics of the injectors is that corrosion or carbon build up? And the one injector with all the cracks around the jet - was that one of the problem ones?
10-25-2015, 07:28 PM
#52
Drifting
Thread Starter
interesting & scientific detail thanks Laurent! Invites a few questions if you don't mind
So it was just 2 & 3 - also didn't realise you could paint the lower part like that .. any specific paint or priming needed? Any reason not to paint the top too?
In your first three pics of the injectors is that corrosion or carbon build up? And the one injector with all the cracks around the jet - was that one of the problem ones?
So it was just 2 & 3 - also didn't realise you could paint the lower part like that .. any specific paint or priming needed? Any reason not to paint the top too?
In your first three pics of the injectors is that corrosion or carbon build up? And the one injector with all the cracks around the jet - was that one of the problem ones?
Yes, 2 and 3 were the problem injectors, with 3 being the worse. Interestingly enough, 3 is the one that ended up with the best flow after the cleaning was performed. Some places will paint the injectors for you and WitchHunter recommends doing so to eliminate any potential rusting issues, and they also mention that any engine paint will do the job. Since I had a can of Rustoleum Satin Black, that is what I used and I did not do any special prep, I just cleaned the body and applied a couple coats of paint, that's it really. I assume my injectors were original and it looks like the factory did not bother taping anything and painted the top plastic part along with the body. I did not see the need to do so and it was easier to tape off where I did rather than closer to the o-ring.
My before pics show all the buildup from 112K miles of driving, they were not corroded, just nasty looking. As for the cracks in the cap, I don't know if that had a negative effect on the spray pattern but I am sure someone smarter than me can confirm if it does or does not.
10-27-2015, 01:57 PM
#55
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Laurent, this has been a great right-up! It shows how even with limited knowledge or the fear of the unknown. When pushed and not satisfied with "Alleged " reputable businesses you can do it yourself ( With some guidance of course ) Similar but worse situation happened to me during my ownership of my 74 Targa ( engine rebuild x2 ) Total disaster. Sites like Renn help us to help ourselves and fellow enthusiast. Keep it up!
10-31-2015, 11:10 AM
#56
Drifting
Thread Starter
Laurent, this has been a great right-up! It shows how even with limited knowledge or the fear of the unknown. When pushed and not satisfied with "Alleged " reputable businesses you can do it yourself ( With some guidance of course ) Similar but worse situation happened to me during my ownership of my 74 Targa ( engine rebuild x2 ) Total disaster. Sites like Renn help us to help ourselves and fellow enthusiast. Keep it up!
Last edited by LPMM; 10-31-2015 at 11:31 AM.
11-01-2015, 11:40 PM
#57
Drifting
Thread Starter
Today, I decided to go for a drive with no real destination in mind and about 100 miles into it, I stumbled onto these guys. Just as I was about to take off, they came out of the restaurant, we chatted and they invited me to tag along as they were meeting up with a F430 and 997TT. Altogether, 160 miles of fun and a very smooth running 964.
It was a sunny and brisk day with temps around 50*F and with the top down, I was enjoying every bit of it. However as the clouds rolled in, it started to get a bit colder so I turned the heat on which is when I noticed that the clock, tach, and oil gauge were getting foggy inside. Strangely enough, the speedo and fuel gauge were totally fine. Have any of you experienced this? Is this is something I should look into or is it a normal occurrence?
The other thing was that with temps getting colder and a threat of rain, I decided to put the top up before heading back home. This is when I found out my power windows motors will need some attention over the winter. The windows were fairly slow to come up and the driver's one stopped halfway, and then was creeping up slower than molasses.
It was a sunny and brisk day with temps around 50*F and with the top down, I was enjoying every bit of it. However as the clouds rolled in, it started to get a bit colder so I turned the heat on which is when I noticed that the clock, tach, and oil gauge were getting foggy inside. Strangely enough, the speedo and fuel gauge were totally fine. Have any of you experienced this? Is this is something I should look into or is it a normal occurrence?
The other thing was that with temps getting colder and a threat of rain, I decided to put the top up before heading back home. This is when I found out my power windows motors will need some attention over the winter. The windows were fairly slow to come up and the driver's one stopped halfway, and then was creeping up slower than molasses.
11-02-2015, 10:03 AM
#58
Today, I decided to go for a drive with no real destination in mind and about 100 miles into it, I stumbled onto these guys. Just as I was about to take off, they came out of the restaurant, we chatted and they invited me to tag along as they were meeting up with a F430 and 997TT. Altogether, 160 miles of fun and a very smooth running 964.
I have not seen my gauges fog up like shown in your picture.
11-10-2015, 06:52 PM
#59
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sorry I missed you yesterday. It looks like you found some good cars to drive with. I intended to get the p-car out yesterday but ended up doing household chores most of the day. I'm taking it in for storage next Saturday so I'm basically done driving it until next April.
I have not seen my gauges fog up like shown in your picture.
I have not seen my gauges fog up like shown in your picture.
Weird about the gauges but it got really cold between WBL and Taylor Falls and with the heat on, it created some fog on the glass except for the speedo and gas gauge. I may pull the vents this winter to make sure everything is connected the way it should.I've been able to put a few more miles given the great weather these past few days, and with mid 50's anticipated for this weekend I'll be able to squeeze a few more before putting it away for good.
Last edited by LPMM; 11-10-2015 at 09:34 PM.
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11-11-2015, 02:44 PM
#60