GeorgeK

What is the issue regarding the tie-rods, length or the cone into the carrier?

I know about the 32mm nut, but thank you.

Edit: Bill, I am glad you chime in. I am trying to get hard verifiable data here in this thread.

I will not tackle the change before I have all the correct parts ready. Budget also plays a role, albeit smaller.

RSAErick

Interesting....

According to the parts catalog, the 993 tie rod outer does not appear to have a separate part number - the tie-rod assembly includes the inner and outer. Not sure about the 993RS version. On the other hand, the 964 version has a separate part number for the outer ball joint, so the tie rod inner could be purchased separately.

Bill Verburg

Correct all the various 993 tie rods are sold as a bolted together unit, I don't know why they do it that way.

the versions used on the 993GT2Evo & 993RSR w/spherical joint inners are a PMS part
993.347.031.03 993 normal tie rod assembly, outer + inner, softest rubber bush but still stiffer than that used in 964
993.347.031.81 993RS tie rod assembly as above but w/ stiffer rubber bush
993.347.031.80 993RSR tie rod assembly as above but w/ mono-ball

Gert Carnewal, Cargraphic, FVD and probably other euro suppliers can also source the mono-ball version

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

We buy from PMS all the time so I stock these items, as well.

RSAErick

Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the 993RS tie rod inner fits into the 964 steering then; and that the length can be set correctly for 964 steering and 993RS/Evo wheel carrier combo. Otherwise, I'll be dissecting the 993RS tie rod outer and threading it onto the 964 inner.

I kind of wish that I had sourced the 993RSR tie rod now. Hopefully the 993RS version is good and stiff! Certainly it will be better than the floppy 964 tie rod.

Bill Verburg

Again I'm unsure of the 964 but the 993 and 993RS wheel carrier have differing geometries, which require differing outer tie rod ends. The RS pieces are designed to reduce bump steer on lowered cars so are unnecessary at stock 964/993 ride heights but become increasingly desirable as the car is lowered

here are top, steel 964RS/turbo wheel carriers w/ long steering arm and radial brake mounts, bottom alloy 993RS/RSR/GT2/GT2Evo wheel carriers w/ short steering arm and radial caliper mounts


993RS alloy uprights and straight outer tie rod ends


top curved 993outer and inner, bottom 993RS/RSR/GT2 straight outer and mono-ball inner


top stock 993 outer/inner, bottom 993RS outer/inner


left 993RS alloy wheel carrier, blue arrow points to the short steering arm for use on lowered cars. right 993 wheel carrier, blue arrow points to long steering arm similar in geometry to steel 964 wheel carrier, for use a stock ride heights


the red arrows point to the ball joint mounts which I believe are also different between 964 and 993

RSAErick

Crap, I wasn't counting on that. I just took a quick measurement, and think that you are correct. The I.D. of the 964 and 993RS uprights is the same at the bottom of the ball joint sleeve. However, it is difficult to tell how the I.D. changes from bottom to top. They depth of the ball joint sleeve is much larger in the 993RS upright. Again, it's difficult to know what is happening in the sleeve.

It would be much easier to measure the ball joint itself for the 964 and 993 versions.

FYI, the caster eccentric is the same for both 964 and 993, but the knurled screw which mounts the ball joint to the control arm is different. I would assume that the 993 ball joint could be easily attached to the 964 control arm.

Has anyone tried using the 964 ball joint with the 993 or 993RS uprights?

perelet

Eric (anybody else?), have you had chance to try 964 ball joint with 993 upright?

You can fit 993 ball joint in to 964 arm - you'll need to enlarge bore 1mm and get #17 and #19 from 993.

But maybe 964 balljoint will just fit 993 upright. i have upright, but do not have extra 964 balljoint to try. Cone in 993 upright measures 13mmX27mmX19mm.



Thanks.
Oleg

bassam

you have to use 964 ball joint, the 993 ball joint will not fit on the A arm end of the 964. Now, if you use 993 outer tie rods you have to change the inners to 993 as well.

bassam

The GT2 evo tie rods might be too long for a narrow body application, I know for sure the Tarett Engineering ones will not fit a narrow body without modification.

RSAErick

The 993 ball joint is very different than the 964 ball joint. Here is a picture of the 993 ball joint (left) next to the 964 ball joint (right):


If using a 993 or 993RS/GT2/EVO upright/wheel carrier, you should also use the 993 ball joint. The 993 ball joint will work with the 964 control arm; and with the 964 knurled screw and 964 castor eccentric (#17 and #18 from your diagram).

RSAErick

Correct! Well, this is correct for a manual steering rack, anyway. The solid GT2 tie rods are much too long for the 964 narrow body, and must be modified for this application. At the minimum adjusted length, the unmodified GT2 tie-rods will result in significant toe-in. In order to obtain proper toe alignment, the threads from the inner and outer side of the GT2 tie-rods can be cut, in order to allow them to seat deeper into the tie-rod outer; and deeper into the steering rack.

GT2 Tie-rod (top) vs. 964 Tie-rod (bottom):


You will also need to use 993 bellows (rubber tie-rod boots) with the GT2 tie-rods. The 964 bellows do not work.

bassam

can't see the comparison pictures, can you try to upload again? I'm using 964 ball joints with the evo uprights. I remember ordering the 993 ball joints and I returned them, cant remember what the problem was but I remember one of the diameters was different.

RSAErick

Is anyone else having problems seeing the pictures? They appear for me. I can email them to you if you still can't see them - just let me know.

Anyway, I tried to measure the differences between these ball joints with calipers, but it's difficult to get a good comparison reading at the same point along the shaft. It's possible that the diameter and slope is identical at the point that matters - so maybe the 964 ball joint will work in the Evo upright.

They were different enough that I decided that it wasn't worth taking a chance. I used the 993 ball joint.

rsscotty

If my memory serves me correctly, you have to use the 993 ABS sensors also. The 964 ones won't interchange.