sam_a156

Hello there,

I just joined the forum. I am a Finn based in Warsaw, Poland.

My previous ride was a highly modified 270hp Mini Cooper S. I had a lot of fun building and running it:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/a...6/IMG_0032.jpg

The Mini is now sold and I am looking into a new project/fun car. I have been testing a wide range of cars until last week I drove a '90 Porsche 964 C2. Wow, that was an event. It was a little intimidating first navigating it in downtown traffic with the heavy clutch etc, but once on the open road it felt great.

The car is completely standard, but seems very tidy and well looked after: new tires, new brake discs&pads, oils and filters just changed. 70000km on the clock supposingly. Apparently it has belonged to an active member of the local Porsche Club for 10 years before the current owner (a classic car specialist) bought it.

The only doubt I have is that it has zero history, nada. While the seller seems very honest and I am planning to take the car to local Porsche Centre for inspection, my concern is that the car may be difficult to sell later without any history to speak of.

What are your thoughts?

If I buy it, I was planning to gradually customise it in the 964 RS spirit. While at least initially a DD, it could evolve into a weekend blast/track car. I would like to get the power-to-weight ratio close to what I had in my Mini (270hp/1140kg). So running about 300hp and little diet should get it close. But for starters, I would be happy just learning to drive it as it is, it would be my first 911 anyway...

Sam

sml

just make sure you dont pay too much for a car with no history

evoderby

With zero history how are you ever going to make sure that the car hasn't done 170.000 or 270.000km??

The phrase 'active member of the local Porsche club' is often nothing more than a hollow marketing/sales statement. I know many members in many car clubs driving cars that are completely knackered --- sure there are also very good ones to be found, but club membership isn't synonymous to quality (!)

Why not start and contact the Porsche Club committee and ask whether they at least know the car and what they can tell you about its history? As a next step have the car thoroughly inspected, thoroughly means that this definately should include a leakdown test to assess the engine's health.

In case you decide to buy the car and sell it later on in its life, the PrePurchaseInspection report coupled with your own maintenance records will make up a bit for the previous gap in service history....it will never fully substitutes for a complete service record / guaranteed mileage!

The latter has a negative effect on resale value, so as said make sure you don't pay too much now to avoid loosing money later.

Good luck!

sam_a156

Thanks for the comments!

You confirm my fears. In fact I already emailed one of the club members on Sunday as I suspect that it may have been his old car. No response yet. But indeed I managed to find online a few pictures of the same car from some Porsche Club track days, so the story may well be true. There are not many classic 964s in the country so chances are somebody knows it.

Anybody can comment what €€€ range a good condition '90 964C2 should cost in EU region? From www.autoskaut24.de it seems that in Germany the low mileage cars are for sale for upwards from 27k€...?

Merle

There would be a 1or a 2 in front of 70,000?

Navaros911

In EU the dealers often have records of the car. Even outside of EU this can be the case.

Is the maintenance booklet stamped in any way? That could be a lead as to where to go ask for records.

Pull out the odometer and check if the metal ring has some burrs on it. It is easy to open but will leave marks that can be seen when you pull it out. It could also just be replaced as the odometers on the 964 are prone to failure. Mine was replaced at around 90k km.

Taking it out is easy, it is just held in place with a rubber ring. So all you need to do is pull it out towards you when seated in the driver's seat.

Zero history should def get the price down... even if you find history and the seller doesn't.

evoderby

Sweet dreams!

sam_a156

The seller told me that virtually all buyer candidates have been suspicious about the mileage. He told me that one mechanic (while doing a PPI) actually checked the odometer and told them that it did not look that anybody had touched it.

All I can say that th seller seemed honest and they were very transparent. But naturally that does not solve the problem.

Will continue trying the Porsche Club route and see what Porsche Service can find.

911Jetta

Welcome Sam,
Great introduction and you will find that there is a lot of fun modifications you can do to any 964 (and we will help if we can), but I really like what you wrote at the end of your post:

Goughary

Sam - careful not to get too much wrapped up in mileage. Look more closely at service records, and make sure you have a good ppi done before purchasing. If it were me, I would have a leakdown test done during the ppi. It'll add cost to the ppi, but if you know the car has good compression when you buy it, you have already saved your self thousands of dollars (in my case 15k). Buy a good car, it'll be alot less expensive to spend more up front for a good car than to fix a car gone bad...

Familiarise yourself here with all that you need to look for - there are plenty of threads that discuss this - and become well aware of the pitfalls, and you'll find a good car without any issue...
and since you seem to be in poland - you may want to not rule out a C4. Great in the rain and snow...

sam_a156

Wow, this forum rocks!

Honestly, I could not have done the 270hp Mini without the support of other enthusiasts online. There aren't many tuned Minis in this country and I am pretty sure that the 964 count is much lower. So just the responses to my first post give me more confidence to take the plunge, so thanks!

In fact, there is another 964 - a C4 - for sale locally. Absolutely in show room condition and running 300hp, but also costs €€€. Perhaps I will check it out after all - at the very least to have a bench mark to compare to.

Vandit

Going from a quick FWD car w/ a big rear swaybar to a 964 was a big challenge. Lots of humbling experiences as I learned to drive the car at the limit and often beyond.

sam_a156

I did quite a bit of work with the Mini's suspension to dial out the understeer and at the end, it was really neutral. You could easily feel the rear get loose when driving it hard, helping in turn-in. One of my last drives was a 9/10ths attack on Route de Napoleon through the Alps to Cote d'Azur,that was a blast...

But yes...I think I am looking at a steep learning curve. In act, I believe that it already started during my test drive. After the initial shock, I already started to imagine myself sitting behind the wheel and feeling quite humble for quite some time. But that was exactly part of the magic.

sam_a156

The plot thickens...

I have continued my due diligence with this car. Today I finally found out that this is an ex C4 with front wheel driveshafts etc removed. Also some other parts are from an earlier (pre 964) 911. My contacts advised to quote "STAY AWAY" and hinted that the car's value is substantially lower than what the seller asks (even though it was rather cheap as-is).

I was just about to take the car to local Porsche Center next week for full PPI, compression and leak down tests. But now I guess a serious discussion with the seller is in order.

If I would get it cheaply, perhaps it could still serve as a starting point for my track day car project...unless there is some thing fundamentally wrong with the vehicle. I am not buying a garage queen anyway.

I have the VIN code, last 5 numbers are 05167. I understood that this could potentially tell if it is a C4 or C2. The renntech.org decoder did not answer that, only stated Carrera 2/4.

911Jetta

Move on!
I don't know if there are any issues with this conversion (it done 100% correct), but I'd be upset if the previous owner (or dealer) just informed me of that fact this far along...