Unkle

Hi

I am after some advice please.

I have had my car a couple of years, however it is becoming something of a torture device when driving. I only have HD’s and Eibach and the factory sports seats, but my lower back is giving me grief on the right hand side and I can’t seem to sort it out, even with some memory foam placed strategically. Last chance saloon today: After a short 40min drive on B roads and still having problems I asked my wife to drive the car back and she had a lower back pain after the drive home, while I was a little more comfortable in the passenger seat. So it seems it’s essentially the driver’s seat although neither are perfect at 20 years old.


My dilemma is:
1: Re-leather front seats and replaced foam on base and back (although base foam is obsolete they will be able to do something) for approx £1300 (But it’s not 100% guaranteed to solve the issue and be more comfortable).
2: Buy some new Recaro pole positions for approx £1300 with runners etc (But it’s not 100% guaranteed to solve the issue and be more comfortable).

The reason I can only think of 2 options is the original seats would keep it looking reasonably factory, and the alternative would be the best of the rest. I am pretty convinced its not the offset pedal configuration so the 2 options above should help but not sure of which one will support me the best. At the moment I don’t really want to think about another alternative suggested to me, but I may need to call it a day with the car if either of the above don’t work.



Any advice or suggestions welcome


(BTW thank to steve for the advice, just throwing it out for any other ideas)

Babalouie

Recaro Pole Positions don't look very comfy....I find the older style of Recaro to be more orthopaedic and comfy. I have one in my other car and it's supremely comfortable.

http://www.recaro.com/en/product-are...pecialist.html

rocketdogbert

All I can offer, I owned a '93 RS Lightweight as a daily driver some 10 years ago or so (I know, should never have sold it etc etc lol) but the OEM seats are very similar to Pole Positions.
I've suffered my entire life with lower back problems, and had zero issues in the RS. I used it every single day, and on a lot of longish drives (300 miles either way).

My dual solution would be, get the PP's and get your back checked out. Weights in the gym reduced my back pain to almost zero, until a major motorbike accident last year, again another story.

Succinctly, my experience says get the PP's, don't sell the car.

The only caveat is my RS was LHD so no off-set position, I did own an 84 Carrera Sport before the RS that was RHD, without the PP equivalents, but gym work helped with that.

John

bobaines

Unkle, I think that the root cause could very well be the offset pedals. That being said your seat will either mitigate or intensify the effect. I personally have suffered the same issue in my cars and with different seats in each car. In the end I have found seats that works well and I have done numerous 500-700 mile days in comfort. One seat that works for me is a early to mid '70's Recaro Ideal. I have also had some custom sized early style one piece seats made that work well. It is all about driving a lot of different seats until you find the one that works. It will take some time driving the seats you are interested in to know if they work for your body, what works for others is little indication what will work for you. Part of the solution is allowing your right leg to not be under side tension which causes twisting at the hip and than impacts your spine. While releaving the tension on the right leg you still want support for spirited driving. This works for LHD not sure how the dynamics work if yours is a RHD but could still be the cause.

Attached are pics of one set of Recaro's when I had them redone and the one piece shell seat.

Good luck finding a seat that works for you. As the saying goes, "there is a seat for every butt".

Unkle

Thanks guys,
I am leaning to an OE look so really wanted to keep it with either of the 2 if possible, mainly because i don't want to compromise on the style that would suit the car , that is the reason for option 3 as a last resort... The Ortho's look good along with those above but too far away from the original (in my untrained eyes). I did think about 996 seats but unless they are from a very low mileage car I could still get worn seat foam and they really do look like they are too new for the old 964 shape. I have heard the PP are pretty good but I understand, like all things its subjective. The trial and error of getting the right seats could get way to expensive to mess up more than once though.

Interesting to hear your thoughts too John especially on the PP's, I stopped playing golf last year for the first time in approx 30 years and haven't started again yet. I broke my finger twice in a few months and really couldn't play, so l did wonder if my lower back muscle just aren't used to not playing Golf (that's a good excuse to hit the range again).

August West

I may be stating the obvious, but don't drive with your wallet in your back pocket...you'll give your hips a better chance to be in balance with your spine. I've found that pain up one side is usually when my hips aren't even.

Also, cruise control is your best friend...set it and forget it. Then you can give your throttle leg a break and squirm around to settle any tension in your body.

marcb993

I wouldn't bother with the pole positions as they are virtually identical to the 964/993 RS bucket seats.

If you really think your lower back problems (LBP) are due to the padding wearing out, then speak to southbound trimmers (no affiliation, apart from they retrimmed the interior on my 993c2) and I'm sure they will be able to return your seats as new (at a price ; )).

Personally, I think the real culprit is likely the pedal offset, I suffer similar issues in my 993 after I haven't driven it for a while.

At the risk of making a foolish suggestion; is it possible to swap your drivers seat and passenger seat around ? If you don't suffer LBP on the passenger side, then swapping the seats round (if indeed possible) will enable you to determine whether your LBP is due to the pedal offset or the seat wear, depending on whether your LBP returns or not.

Either way, as Rocketdogbert mentioned, some time in the gym can work miracles, or beginners yoga is also very good.. (forget the advanced stuff)

Unkle

I would have liked cruise but i think the motorway journeys are fine, it seems to be when i can't move about much, and B road driving (the enjoyable part) it the main type of Sunday fun I have. If you are right and its the pedals that pretty much puts pay to reasonable changes.

BTW the seats can be swapped but from memory its the seat belt anchor that is the issue i think its fixed to the seats.

Thinking out loud: Would PP or similar have a reduced side bolster and therefore allow you to sit slightly closer to the centre tunnel? The original seats have a very thick bolster although reduced in height (see pics below). I know i am grasping at straws but other than back fitness i can't see another way around it and i truly don't want to make a decision on the car. If anyone has PP's or other, what is the gap to the centre tunnel like, was it increased or reduced?

PP or similar






The seats and offset on RHD 1992 my feet on the clutch rest (to the left of the clutch pedal) and other foot on the throttle pedal.

boxsey911

Re your question about the seat bolster position. The PPs sit in exactly the same place because the position of both seats are governed by the floor mounting points. So, no, you will not be closer to the tunnel with the PPs.

Where I think the PPs help is that the high sides to the left and right of your backside provide much more resistence to lateral movement of your body when cornering. As you know, I find the PPs very comfortable and much better than my original comfort seats.

Strega(UK)

I had exactly the same problem with my back as you and have since fitted Pole positions for a different reason but have found they have cured the dull ache I got after 40 mins of driving or so. I can now drive a good 2 hours plus with no pain or discomfort, just don't ask me how!

Porsche964FP

If you feel less pain in the passenger seat there must be a reason. The difference between the driver's and passenger's are the driving controls - the pedals and the steering wheel.

As I'm sure you're aware the driving position in RHD cars is compromised and thus the pedal and steering wheel offset is intensified.

While Recaro PP and the likes are incredibly comfortable ( even on long trips - completed 2,500 miles euro round trip in them ) in my experience they intensify the offset with the pedals.

Another element worthy of note is that from year to year the pedal assembly changed, that is to say that some 964s will have the place to rest your foot in between the clutch and brake pedal whilst later cars will have the resting place on the left of all the pedals.

Check your pedals. I recently changed to a 993 pedal assembly with the resting place to the left of all the pedals, as a result the offset is greatly reduced and thus leaves you with a driving position that is 'straight' on.

I would recommend this fix ( if you have an early pedal box ) over changing seats first and foremost.

The next element I would attack if you haven't already is the steering wheel offset. Standard steering wheels can be too far away from the driver and can cause repetitive strain. Choosing a steering wheel with a boss which will bring the steering wheel closer and one with a small diameter will greatly improve the driving ergonomics.

These fixes should be the answers to your problem - they were for me.

The trouble with changing to Recaros or the likes is that due to the nature of sports seats they allow less movement and thus I found that my legs were even more offset than before.

I would recommend changing seats as the last thing to change once the above has been checked off.

Jump in your car, check your driving position:

1. Are your legs in line with your torso when feet are on the pedals?
2. Are your arms in line with your torso when hands are on the wheel?

Then you'll have the answers...

Next step would be to jump in a few other 964s - one's with later pedal assemblies and boss mounted steering wheels....

Unkle

Thanks for the help, The other possible reason i thought it may be better in the passenger seat was due to not having someone sitting on it for 18 years, but who knows. However I have the later pedal set up as its a 1992 car, but i think the clutch rest being further to the left doesn't really help the whole "off set to the left issue" as it simply puts one foot further against the transmission tunnel. I also have a smaller wheel that is out towards me on a boss, my legs are able to push the clutch to the floor and my wrists sit on the top of the wheel with slightly bent arms, so i think i am screwed on 1,2 and 3

With what others have said, and not wanting to be negative about it, I think I will go and try a PP on Saturday and hope for the best, if it doesn't feel right when i sit in it in the showroom with my legs offset to the left for ten minutes, I am going to test drive a Cayman to see if it feels better. I will hate to do it but this seat issue may bring forward my 2014 plans as I can't really use the car for short or long trips and get max enjoyment out of it. Or i could store it after the next Euro Spa trip and work on my back.

993James993

While this does not address your original question, you might check out this site that describes how to set up your seat:

http://www.turnfast.com//tech_driving/driving_seating

I've followed their advice and like the results.

tat

As suggested by others, I think you should try altering your driving position slightly. If you move the seat forwards a notch your legs will take more of the "twist" between back and feet, so the back can remain square in the seat.

The back should be tight in the seat - imagine a race car in which the seat is a key piece of crash protection for the driver; harnesses pull the driver tightly into the seat so there is no movement, and the seat is the primary piece of spinal protection.

Most of us can adapt to different driving positions easily.

Good luck!

misterbeverlyhills

I have the same problem, worse in some cars and non existant in others and after years of fiddling with seats to no avail here is what helped me:
before and after a drive sit on the floor, raise your knees slightly and grab your ankles with your arms inside your knees, put your elbows on your inner thighs. Now squeeze your knees together and prevent them from moving with your elbows against your thighs. Do this four times and hold for 15 seconds each time.
Don't burst a blood vessel just keep strong pressure squeezing and preventing your knees touching with your elbows.

Put your arms on the outside now and reverse the drill; try to separate your knees and use your arms to prevent them from moving. 4 times with good effort but no need to turn blue.

The purpose is to get your hips to open, the previous poster is correct, the uneveness of the hips causes the dull ache which gets really bad when in a fixed position for any length of time.

An Osteo taught me this and I have no problems anymore, except if you do this in public.........