Help! Need advice Please!
07-08-2011, 05:07 PM
#1
Help! Need advice Please!
Last Friday I picked up my car from Foreign Exchange in Dayon. While there, the engine received a complete rebuild + P/C etc. You name it, it got it.
It started leaking oil over the weekend. Tuesday morning I dropped the car off to have the leaks inspected.
Part #1
Yesterday the mechanic, Rick Reilich, stated the reason for the leak was a screw inserted too far into the cam cover. There is a screw hole that is tapped into the cover and Rick said it looks like someone may have tried to muscle a screw in too far (some other mechanic). Rick stated oil was dripping out of this tapped hole.
As a temporary repair, he dipped a screw into epoxy and then inserted it into this hole. A new cover is ordered.
Today I went to go pick the car up. Of course, I was very relieved that the leak was minor.
Part #2
Upon arriving, Rick had the car on the lift to show me underneath. He said the it ALSO appears that both cam housings have minor damage and oil is very slowly "weaping" out where the cam housings are bolted to the case (there was a visible drip forming on each side where the cam tower meets the case). He said there must be wear on the cam housings due to the rocker arms being previously off center on the rocker shafts. This caused a degradation of both cam housings."
Rick stated the only feasable way to fix this leak was to drop the engine AGAIN, dissassemble and then replace both rocker towers @ an additional $ 3200 + labor (on top of the $15,000 and change I already put into this engine).
HELP!!!!!
Please, HELP!!!!
Does this sound plausible???? How can I have already put $15,000 in a rebuild, and then be told the only way I can stop the new engine from leaking oil is to put another, at least $ 4500.00 (parts + Labor) to get it to stop leaking?????
It started leaking oil over the weekend. Tuesday morning I dropped the car off to have the leaks inspected.
Part #1
Yesterday the mechanic, Rick Reilich, stated the reason for the leak was a screw inserted too far into the cam cover. There is a screw hole that is tapped into the cover and Rick said it looks like someone may have tried to muscle a screw in too far (some other mechanic). Rick stated oil was dripping out of this tapped hole.
As a temporary repair, he dipped a screw into epoxy and then inserted it into this hole. A new cover is ordered.
Today I went to go pick the car up. Of course, I was very relieved that the leak was minor.
Part #2
Upon arriving, Rick had the car on the lift to show me underneath. He said the it ALSO appears that both cam housings have minor damage and oil is very slowly "weaping" out where the cam housings are bolted to the case (there was a visible drip forming on each side where the cam tower meets the case). He said there must be wear on the cam housings due to the rocker arms being previously off center on the rocker shafts. This caused a degradation of both cam housings."
Rick stated the only feasable way to fix this leak was to drop the engine AGAIN, dissassemble and then replace both rocker towers @ an additional $ 3200 + labor (on top of the $15,000 and change I already put into this engine).
HELP!!!!!
Please, HELP!!!!
Does this sound plausible???? How can I have already put $15,000 in a rebuild, and then be told the only way I can stop the new engine from leaking oil is to put another, at least $ 4500.00 (parts + Labor) to get it to stop leaking?????
07-08-2011, 05:13 PM
#2
take the car for an assessment somewhere else. only then can you decide if you think Rick has been negligent whilst assigning your 15k pot during the time he had the car.
07-08-2011, 05:14 PM
#3
Drifting
for the 42nd time, get a second opinion!! You rattled off all of the cars that your mechanic works on. The second opinion needs to come from a dedicated Porsche guy. not a mechanic trying to be all things to all high end cars.
07-08-2011, 05:23 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
In your first line - you state, "complete rebuild" and yet the engine is still leaking.
Not sure if this damage is "normal" so it might not be caught during a "regular" rebuild - but shouldn't a reputable shop survey the engine for exceptional leaks before teardown to avoid this sort of aftershock?
If I ran that shop - I'd at least offer you a steep discount on this Phase 2 - since frankly - I feel we should have caught this in the first rebuild during a detailed visual inspection of all pieces while the engine's apart.
Sure - if flat 6's NEVER leaked - I'd forgive them for not checking every mating surface carefully, but...
Just my 2 cents.
RK
Not sure if this damage is "normal" so it might not be caught during a "regular" rebuild - but shouldn't a reputable shop survey the engine for exceptional leaks before teardown to avoid this sort of aftershock?
If I ran that shop - I'd at least offer you a steep discount on this Phase 2 - since frankly - I feel we should have caught this in the first rebuild during a detailed visual inspection of all pieces while the engine's apart.
Sure - if flat 6's NEVER leaked - I'd forgive them for not checking every mating surface carefully, but...
Just my 2 cents.
RK
07-08-2011, 05:32 PM
#5
Seems a little strange but I'm sure someone here will offer more advice.
I'm no expert but I had a full rebuild with the case split, crank ground then full rebuild out. Similar money to what you are in for allowing for exchange rate.
When you say cam housing, i assume you mean the rocker covers top and bottom and not the timing chain covers on the rear end of the engine. We use a different English over here.
On some of the earlier cars the covers are a magnesium alloy (dark grey colour and quite light in weight) and they do warp over time whether due to heat or uneven torque applied. I kind of like the originality of the magnesium so am happy to live with some very minor weaping where they are bolted to the main engine casing. You can get aluminium covers though.
If you have leaks between the cylinder barrels and the heads, or between the barrels and the crankcase that is a different problem.
For there to be damage inside the covers to the rockers, I would have thought something quite serious has happened to do that but would that not have cracked the magnesium alloy or broken something?
Do you have any pictures?
Others on here have been more critical of Rick - maybe there is something in what they are suggesting...
I'm no expert but I had a full rebuild with the case split, crank ground then full rebuild out. Similar money to what you are in for allowing for exchange rate.
When you say cam housing, i assume you mean the rocker covers top and bottom and not the timing chain covers on the rear end of the engine. We use a different English over here.
On some of the earlier cars the covers are a magnesium alloy (dark grey colour and quite light in weight) and they do warp over time whether due to heat or uneven torque applied. I kind of like the originality of the magnesium so am happy to live with some very minor weaping where they are bolted to the main engine casing. You can get aluminium covers though.
If you have leaks between the cylinder barrels and the heads, or between the barrels and the crankcase that is a different problem.
For there to be damage inside the covers to the rockers, I would have thought something quite serious has happened to do that but would that not have cracked the magnesium alloy or broken something?
Do you have any pictures?
Others on here have been more critical of Rick - maybe there is something in what they are suggesting...
07-08-2011, 05:40 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
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Guy, I'm so sorry.
One of two things are probable here, both reflect basic incompetence on the shops behalf.
1) Rocker shafts are leaking because they weren't sealed properly (proper seals used, etc._)
2) Cam towers and mating surfaces were not examined properly for mate, sealing was not accomplished properly or perhaps even an incompetent torque issue plays a role.
I just don't know what to say here beyone the fact (as I've iterated several times here) that I don't trust your shop.
Cam towers are a dime a dozen.
One of two things are probable here, both reflect basic incompetence on the shops behalf.
1) Rocker shafts are leaking because they weren't sealed properly (proper seals used, etc._)
2) Cam towers and mating surfaces were not examined properly for mate, sealing was not accomplished properly or perhaps even an incompetent torque issue plays a role.
I just don't know what to say here beyone the fact (as I've iterated several times here) that I don't trust your shop.
Cam towers are a dime a dozen.
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07-08-2011, 06:45 PM
#9
Guy, one thing is for certain: as bad as this experience has been, when the car is fully sorted and done, it'll more than make up for it in grins when you drive, and you should have a relatively trouble-free car for the next decade or so.
Keep your chin up and your eye on the long ball.
Keep your chin up and your eye on the long ball.
07-08-2011, 07:03 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
1. The cam towers don't bolt to the case. They bolt to the each individual head. They really don't even bolt to the chain housings, but rather there's an intermediate piece which attaches the two via an o-ring and a gasket. (The o-ring IS a problem area, and I've pinched them on reassembly. But if you know what you're doing, you catch it.)
2. Any shop that deserves to be in business will guarantee a leak-free engine on delivery to the customer. Period. You check things when the engine is apart. The all aluminum engines of this (really, the 3.0-later) generation are basically warp-free. Cam towers being damaged in the rocker shaft area? Give me a _______ break. Again, I go back to the plethora of POS 2.7L engines I've disassembled, reassembled, and otherwise half-*** rebuilt 15-25 years ago to keep POS 2.7L cars on the road. Never a problem in the rocker shaft area.
Glad you're getting a second opinion.
2. Any shop that deserves to be in business will guarantee a leak-free engine on delivery to the customer. Period. You check things when the engine is apart. The all aluminum engines of this (really, the 3.0-later) generation are basically warp-free. Cam towers being damaged in the rocker shaft area? Give me a _______ break. Again, I go back to the plethora of POS 2.7L engines I've disassembled, reassembled, and otherwise half-*** rebuilt 15-25 years ago to keep POS 2.7L cars on the road. Never a problem in the rocker shaft area.
Glad you're getting a second opinion.
07-08-2011, 08:12 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
1. The cam towers don't bolt to the case. They bolt to the each individual head. They really don't even bolt to the chain housings, but rather there's an intermediate piece which attaches the two via an o-ring and a gasket. (The o-ring IS a problem area, and I've pinched them on reassembly. But if you know what you're doing, you catch it.)
2. Any shop that deserves to be in business will guarantee a leak-free engine on delivery to the customer. Period. You check things when the engine is apart. The all aluminum engines of this (really, the 3.0-later) generation are basically warp-free. Cam towers being damaged in the rocker shaft area? Give me a _______ break. Again, I go back to the plethora of POS 2.7L engines I've disassembled, reassembled, and otherwise half-*** rebuilt 15-25 years ago to keep POS 2.7L cars on the road. Never a problem in the rocker shaft area.
Glad you're getting a second opinion.
2. Any shop that deserves to be in business will guarantee a leak-free engine on delivery to the customer. Period. You check things when the engine is apart. The all aluminum engines of this (really, the 3.0-later) generation are basically warp-free. Cam towers being damaged in the rocker shaft area? Give me a _______ break. Again, I go back to the plethora of POS 2.7L engines I've disassembled, reassembled, and otherwise half-*** rebuilt 15-25 years ago to keep POS 2.7L cars on the road. Never a problem in the rocker shaft area.
Glad you're getting a second opinion.
Listen very carefully to the above...and I would suggest, from my experience, that the issue is more than likely poorly installed/aligned rocker arm shafts and or shaft seals. Not all gasket kits come with the rocker shaft seals and not all engines use/need them. But this is a common error by novice flat six engine builders that often gets overlooked...
07-08-2011, 09:48 PM
#12
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Listen very carefully to the above...and I would suggest, from my experience, that the issue is more than likely poorly installed/aligned rocker arm shafts and or shaft seals. Not all gasket kits come with the rocker shaft seals and not all engines use/need them. But this is a common error by novice flat six engine builders that often gets
Yep...from a source far more experienced than I.
Listen to the above experts.
Yep...from a source far more experienced than I.
Listen to the above experts.
07-09-2011, 01:26 AM
#13
I'm glad to hear that you are having the Garaj check things out. Please be patient as none of the pcar shop in town (probably anywhere) are lightning fast but I think getting right is the priority. Good luck Guy. I hope you get a bit of good luck soon.
08-07-2011, 10:56 PM
#14
08-08-2011, 05:50 AM
#15
Racer
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Just came across this. http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/2518412903.html
Feel quite sad for him, he really missed out on the true joy of P-car ownership, and will likely never be back. If you do your homework, they really are fantastic cars, I can't imagine ever not wanting to own and drive a 911.