Suspension and gears today
06-16-2011, 01:12 AM
#1
Suspension and gears today
Hi All,
I've had my 964 for 7 months and 7,000KM and love it. On the weekend I had new Michelin PS2's installed and was very excited to feel the difference. And then......
On slow speed turn ins it felt like the front passenger side would bite. This was followed by a loud click sound as if something was caught on rotation like a shield or something. I climbed underneath and couldn't see anything. Once moving the sound went away. On one occasion it continued for several rotations.
Today I thought I'd take it by my local shop and see if they could see anything.
On the drive the car stuck in third gear and wouldn't come out. After about half a mile I was able to pull it out and it seemed to shift stiffly out of gear but into gear was fine.
When I got to the shop they looked underneath and couldn't see anything so we put in on the hoist. Once on they immediately saw that the shock was broken and the control arm had play. The bump was completely gone. The car has 219K and everything looks original so it doesn't owe anything and should be replaced. The shop said that the parts will be around $1,000 per side plus labour. I asked about Bilstein and they said I could do what I wanted but they have had no issues with stock parts on a 964.
In reading here, it doesn't seem like anyone replaces with stock. I think I would be green as I don't track the car and do drive all year in all conditions and on all roads so something middle of the road seems right to me. Does anyone have recommendations on who I could talk to? A complete list of parts? I want to do it once and replace all the proper stuff. I hate to do all the major stuff and then miss a couple bushings or something and not get the full benefit. I saw several notes that Steve at Renn in Portland is very knowledgeable so I left a mssg this afternoon. Good news is I love the car even driving on a shot suspension so it will be great to get that fixed.
Now part two are the gears; after sticking the car ran fine and I thought it was one off. Tonight on the way home it goes into a grind, pops out of gear, and ticks. The clutch was done about 10,000KM ago and has always been very stiff. I can't find the same scenario in searches but do find talks about synchros, forks, and possibly misalignment. Any ideas?
I have the sinking feeling that today is a $10K. That's a bummer but I want to make sure I get it right. I'm not a mechanic and reading the posts I'm worried that I'll take it to the shop and they'll say clutch; replace it and it will be fine for a while but because something is amiss internally it will prematurely wear and I'll be back to where I am. As well as not getting the full enjoyment from the car and the way it was intended.
Good news is I climbed in my 41 year old MGB to take the kids to soccer and even though it has only been run once this year it ran great!
Appreciate any input. Sorry for the long note.
I've had my 964 for 7 months and 7,000KM and love it. On the weekend I had new Michelin PS2's installed and was very excited to feel the difference. And then......
On slow speed turn ins it felt like the front passenger side would bite. This was followed by a loud click sound as if something was caught on rotation like a shield or something. I climbed underneath and couldn't see anything. Once moving the sound went away. On one occasion it continued for several rotations.
Today I thought I'd take it by my local shop and see if they could see anything.
On the drive the car stuck in third gear and wouldn't come out. After about half a mile I was able to pull it out and it seemed to shift stiffly out of gear but into gear was fine.
When I got to the shop they looked underneath and couldn't see anything so we put in on the hoist. Once on they immediately saw that the shock was broken and the control arm had play. The bump was completely gone. The car has 219K and everything looks original so it doesn't owe anything and should be replaced. The shop said that the parts will be around $1,000 per side plus labour. I asked about Bilstein and they said I could do what I wanted but they have had no issues with stock parts on a 964.
In reading here, it doesn't seem like anyone replaces with stock. I think I would be green as I don't track the car and do drive all year in all conditions and on all roads so something middle of the road seems right to me. Does anyone have recommendations on who I could talk to? A complete list of parts? I want to do it once and replace all the proper stuff. I hate to do all the major stuff and then miss a couple bushings or something and not get the full benefit. I saw several notes that Steve at Renn in Portland is very knowledgeable so I left a mssg this afternoon. Good news is I love the car even driving on a shot suspension so it will be great to get that fixed.
Now part two are the gears; after sticking the car ran fine and I thought it was one off. Tonight on the way home it goes into a grind, pops out of gear, and ticks. The clutch was done about 10,000KM ago and has always been very stiff. I can't find the same scenario in searches but do find talks about synchros, forks, and possibly misalignment. Any ideas?
I have the sinking feeling that today is a $10K. That's a bummer but I want to make sure I get it right. I'm not a mechanic and reading the posts I'm worried that I'll take it to the shop and they'll say clutch; replace it and it will be fine for a while but because something is amiss internally it will prematurely wear and I'll be back to where I am. As well as not getting the full enjoyment from the car and the way it was intended.
Good news is I climbed in my 41 year old MGB to take the kids to soccer and even though it has only been run once this year it ran great!
Appreciate any input. Sorry for the long note.
09-16-2011, 03:28 AM
#6
Suspension and Gears - Update
Finally got back on the road last week.
Ended up needing major transmission work so went with a rebuilt transmission. Installed Bilsteins with H&R green springs to upgrade the suspension. Also did RS motor mounts and a new transmission mount.
Very pleased with how it is running and have put 500 miles on it since getting it back.
Getting into first gear is very hard. My shop made the rebuilder aware of the issue and their advice is to drive it and the problem will likely go away. It may be my imagination or I'm getting better at working it into first but this seems to be working. Any ideas on what would cause this in the first place?
Funny how you would never pay a bill of that size on a modern call and not expect it to shift perfectly. I'm just happy to be back on the road after being down for 3 months.
Once I'm past first everything is even better then I remember.
Ended up needing major transmission work so went with a rebuilt transmission. Installed Bilsteins with H&R green springs to upgrade the suspension. Also did RS motor mounts and a new transmission mount.
Very pleased with how it is running and have put 500 miles on it since getting it back.
Getting into first gear is very hard. My shop made the rebuilder aware of the issue and their advice is to drive it and the problem will likely go away. It may be my imagination or I'm getting better at working it into first but this seems to be working. Any ideas on what would cause this in the first place?
Funny how you would never pay a bill of that size on a modern call and not expect it to shift perfectly. I'm just happy to be back on the road after being down for 3 months.
Once I'm past first everything is even better then I remember.
09-16-2011, 06:15 AM
#7
Nordschleife Master
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Wahoo! Good for you...
First gear hard to get into from a stop? Let's initially discuss how you go about slipping into first; although iffn you drive an older MG, then I will assume you have no syncros there and have a feel for these things, but let's talk about it first, then diagnose.
BTW: This....
First gear hard to get into from a stop? Let's initially discuss how you go about slipping into first; although iffn you drive an older MG, then I will assume you have no syncros there and have a feel for these things, but let's talk about it first, then diagnose.
BTW: This....
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09-16-2011, 04:01 PM
#8
It is difficult from stop. It has two distinct notches when going into first. Coming from reverse to first is generally smooth and often it will be a little more receptive going into first from second if I'm coming to a light. When it goes in smooth the notches are barely perceived.
From a dead stop it will not go at all on occassion. There is no grinding. I can feel it go the first notch and then not the second. I'll rock back into second and up to first (Like I do without the syncro in the MG) and guide it with the heel of my hand. Feeling around with the heel of my hand I initially found a good spot on the far left side. Even with the down up action it will still take some force.
Today I ran a lot of stop and go and it does seem to be getting better. Or I just keep telling myself that.
. The explanation I got is with a mix of new and old parts it may take some time to seat or maybe there is a burr on a part.
BTW: I posted pics when I first drove the car from pick up last November. lol
From a dead stop it will not go at all on occassion. There is no grinding. I can feel it go the first notch and then not the second. I'll rock back into second and up to first (Like I do without the syncro in the MG) and guide it with the heel of my hand. Feeling around with the heel of my hand I initially found a good spot on the far left side. Even with the down up action it will still take some force.
Today I ran a lot of stop and go and it does seem to be getting better. Or I just keep telling myself that.
. The explanation I got is with a mix of new and old parts it may take some time to seat or maybe there is a burr on a part. BTW: I posted pics when I first drove the car from pick up last November. lol
09-16-2011, 04:47 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Feb 2011
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is...
Steve; search here for shifter bushings and see if symptoms match. Has the clutch slave been bled recently; for that matter, the brakes also (must do if not)?
Steve; search here for shifter bushings and see if symptoms match. Has the clutch slave been bled recently; for that matter, the brakes also (must do if not)?
09-16-2011, 05:30 PM
#12
Steve,
If they have had the gear shift mechanism out and replaced some of the bushes, it could be stiff until it beds in.
It could be the clutch hydraulics need bleeding. I'd say try that first since it has all been taken apart recently.
At 219km the master/slave cylinder may be on its way out but before you change them, try bleeding the system first though.
On high mileage cars, the pedal assembly for the clutch gets wear to a pin which can cause similar issues. Does the pedal feel like it is sticking occasionally or feel strange? Also check the springs. Take a look at PET
http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf...64_KATALOG.pdf
page 246 item 8.
Also take a look at this -
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...pic-heavy.html
Rob.
If they have had the gear shift mechanism out and replaced some of the bushes, it could be stiff until it beds in.
It could be the clutch hydraulics need bleeding. I'd say try that first since it has all been taken apart recently.
At 219km the master/slave cylinder may be on its way out but before you change them, try bleeding the system first though.
On high mileage cars, the pedal assembly for the clutch gets wear to a pin which can cause similar issues. Does the pedal feel like it is sticking occasionally or feel strange? Also check the springs. Take a look at PET
http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf...64_KATALOG.pdf
page 246 item 8.
Also take a look at this -
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...pic-heavy.html
Rob.
