alexjc4

I see your logic, but they are progressive so while you are correct at the lower rate, at the high rates the red front/rear is 94% and the green 96%, so reds are actualy proportionally slighty softer at the front.

alexjc4

Just to be clear I know greens are the normal and valid choice, but I like to feel the road and prefer a stiff sprung car. There seem to be plenty of folk on here happy with both options.

If i turn the car into an over sprung bouncy understeering nightmare, i'll put my hand up

race911

With either of these options you aren't even scratching the surface of "stiff." Anyone can be happy with mismatched components if you're just running up and down the road. It's not going to be "bouncy." Nor will you have an understeering "nightmare." They aren't even that way stock with 205X16 front tires, as we were dealing with 20 years ago on the new cars. (I set up one of the first C4s delivered into the Bay Area. Talk about wandering around with the blind.)

Again, really all 911s work best with spring rates that match the weight distribution. If I'm running a 600 rear, the front will be damned near 400.

alexjc4

Sure, we're not talking track setup coilovers here, I've got a another car for that. I'm just talking the running on the stiff side for street use. In terms of "bouncy" I'm just meaning not being oversprung for the damper - which is something you can do by accident with bad matching sport dampers and lowering springs.

When it comes to weight distribution, the H&Rs don't differ for c2 vs c4 so I guess the extra 100KG over the front axle on a c4 would allow for a slightly stiffer front.

Ah well it will all come out in the wash and a set of springs is a cheap mistake, if that's what it turns out to be.

DWS964

I would really like to hear feedback from Gert on his original recommendation against the Reds. Based upon his reputation with this crowd, we should stop to listen. Data and Experience Rule.
(and not to start another discussion... but I have seen different numbers for the Green vs Red on spring rates, which show a bigger differential when moving to the Reds. Also, if you look at the springs when loaded, they are not really progressive, the second number is the "working" rate that the car will see 90+% of the time, except when the car is jacked up. The lower spring rate coils - the ones close together, merely stack up on top of each other and no longer "spring" when loaded)
Have Fun Be Safe

alexjc4

Gert didn't elaborate any further, and I'm happy to respect advice but not feel obliged take it. I can appreciate the line of reasoning that says the greens are the "appropriate" choice and H&Rs intended spring for the C2 and C4 but the factors that go into H&Rs recommendation (and Gert's) may differ from the factors that make up my preference.

Yeah, I've seen contradictory figures for spring rates from different sources, and not many include the working rate which is the key one as you say. I've based the selection more on a sort of sample of people on this site, those happy with greens vs those happy with reds vs those with greens who felt they were too soft vs those feeling reds came up too hard - then balance that with my own taste.

Tuscany964

You haven't stated which dampers you intend using, maybe he's suggesting greens are more appropriate with standard dampers. That would makes sense... I run reds with konis and H&R sways and have no problems at all. If anything it's still too soft (but acceptable) for the track and great on the road.

alexjc4

Ah, good point, I'm ordering bilstein hds to go with the springs.

sundog

I'm running the reds on a C2 with the Bilstein HD's. It works fine on the street, and OK on the track. Not sure how the difference would be felt on a C4.

carnumber6

the red Ken matches the Turbos weight and speed better that a 964 is all .. The Greens are much softer initially than the reds in front ..

J richard

I can only guess from what I've read here, but if you were selecting bilstein HDs the greens are better matched to the factory valving. Going to reds For the ideal setup you will want to have the dampers valved for the higher rates. (this for a C2, out of my element on the c4)

alexjc4

well they've arrived!

After all the input, and having made up my mind to go with reds... at the very last moment I decided to go with the greens (which are now actually purplish blue in colour). I decided I was really just being contrary, and I should just go heed the advice of some of the highly experienced folk that have chipped in.

anyway here they are in their shiny glory, for some reason I was expecting painted shocks so shiny stainless was a pleasant surprise.

now, about alignment setup... but that's for a different thread I think

(I've changed the thread title a little bit too - original wording was a bit harsh maybe)

Jr250

Hi Alexjc4.
Did you get them from Gert aswell?
I also wasn't aware that the greens are now blue. Albiet, I've seen them on other sites as you have there. I wasn't sure if that was Bilstein spring. They are H&R's are they?

I'm also trying to find the exact same set up for my C2, but Gert has an issue finding more stock now. He does offer an attractive price, but I'm keen to get them installed before the fall hits Austria.
Any ideas where I could find more?

Thanks
Jason

alexjc4

Yup all from Gert, waited 5 weeks for rear shocks from bilstein, due to german summer holidays etc. It got to the point where i lined up a slightly more expensive uk supplier type911 who had the shocks in stock. Later that day the rear shocks arrived with Gert.

The springs are h&r ones.

tbennett017

I know it's been said, but I'd like to echo this sentiment. We here on Rennlist are pretty lucky to have specialists who are willing to give us expert advice, without requiring $$ right up front. These guys like Gert and Steve W. need to make a living, and they do by selling parts as well as providing good advice to go with them. It's called value-added service.

It makes me a little squeamish when we just jump to dissing or calling into question when a clear expert's advice doesn't match our own expectations. If you ask an expert, be considerate enough to either take the advice (and buy their products) or chose to ignore it... but leave it there.

I worry that guys like this will quit giving advice away if we treat them like every average joe with a trolling opinion.

ALSO, (while I have my soapbox out) let's not undercut these guys by asking advice and then turning around and buying stuff for a few $$ cheaper somewhere else. That's just plain disrespectful, and it will end the "free advice" for all pretty quick, as they will be forced out of business. Then we'll all be stuck dealing with vendors that may have a good price, but have no idea how to maximize our car experience.