ronanw

I am thinking of taking a look at this car over the weekend and wanted to get your thoughts on it. http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/2285175149.html

Is the C4 lightly to be a lot more expensive to maintain than the C2? I will get a PPI done before I buy, but is there anything that I should be looking for in particular when I go see the car?
The C4 is appealing due the weather we get in the NW, but as this is not going to be a daily driver I don't know if there is a big advantage in it.

thanks.

wellcraft290

I think you will find it is no more expensive to maintain being a c4 owner. Only thing I have done is had teh fluid flushed and changed in the awd system which if I am correct is ppart of the brake system so basically if you ever do your brakes your doing the awd system as well.

pcst

Hey, I saw this one as well but currently looking for 993.

Looked pretty clean from those pictures.
Let us know how it goes.

Rocket Rob

+1 - C4's can be very reliable, as long as they are well maintained. My AWD system has been very reliable on my cab. The only AWD fault I've had is a leaky seal on the front differential. Not bad in my book for 200K miles of driving.

911Jetta

Bearclaw created a thread on it the other day: 964 seen on CL in Seattle

Can you take a picture of the seats...just curious.
Great looking car, hope it works out!

Makmov

Could be a lot more, but it doesn't have to be. Most 964 AWD failures is operator error, running them out of fluid, driving on one flat tire, or doing something stupid.

I drove my C4 in the snow and it was absolutely phenomenal. I have a 90 C2 that I find to be a little light and floaty in the front vs the very sure footed C4. It just feels planted at all times.

Yes and no. You can flush and bleed the brake system without bleeding the lockers, but you are correct that the system uses the ABS pump and brake system.

I saw that car it looks nice.

Yes, things to look for.

Obviously does it look and run okay.

Look for leaks, power steering, oil lines, thermostat, front cooler and standard air-cooled engine leaks, return tubes, chain covers, sending unit.

Look for rust. They are not immune to rust, especially around the windshield.

Look in the frunk pull out the carpets; look particularly around the battery for rust and or corrosion.

While you are there sniff around by the fuel filler neck for gas odors. Most 964 need a fill neck.

It is always hard unless you can get it up off the ground, but try to look at the boots, axle boots and drop down links.

Look at the brakes, an OEM Zimmerman rotor will not rust around the hub, which just kind of gives you an idea of how it was taken care of.

Look at the dash, are all the lights working. Almost ever 964 I have come across so far has had at least one light pulled from a gauge. With out starting the car but with the key on you should see an ABS light, AWD light, Check Engine Light, Brake Wear Light, Parking Brake light the BIG! Light those are on the oil pressure and temp gauge. On the clock, Airbag and seat belt lights. There are a bunch of other lights but those are the big ones to look for. Any missing lights are potentially expensive repairs. Now when you start it do the lights go out? NOTE the AWD/ABS light might take a few moments to go out. That is normal as the system needs to build up 7.5KPS.

Drive the car, and I would for a while at the very least until it gets full warm. Look at the oil gauges. Oil pressure should be 1 bar at idle or there about. Temp should be at 9 o’clock and the oil tank should be somewhere in the middle range. If it warm and pegged at the top of the gauge that is a good indicator of it being over filled with oil.

Clock work shows accurate time.

See if the AC works.

Does it idle okay?

I always like to see a proper Porsche or Mahle OC54 oil filter a Mahle fuel filter, and an orange air filter in the air box. Again it just kind of gives you an idea of the owner’s maintenance habits.

Check wear on tires.

Check for slight knocking noise and or rattles when you turn it off: Indicator of a worn DMF, a $2000 fix.

All the seat switches working.

Check the sunroof operation, does it need roof seals?

There are probably 2 dozen other things I look at when I am first assessing a 964 that I can’t think of off the top of my head. And they are just things to look for. It doesn’t mean any one of them are a deal breaker you just have to assess the car as a whole, and what it buy price is and what you might have to put into it.

I can, however, promise you will have to put some money into the car, pretty much any car you buy.

sml

... after 20 mins of idling.

if you are driving the car and idling for 5 minutes at stop lights, expect the oil level to stay under the red.

Makmov

Yeah, true, the tank level is probably the most unreliable gauge there is on the whole car, I have seen them all over the place.

Bearclaw

Great post. And it shows how far you hang your @ss out there when you buy long distance, without being able to do these things hands-on - like I did. Fortunately my experience turned out good, but even with a PPI, there's no substitute for being able to do this yourself.

One little phrase that can cost you a whole lotta $$$ - in many cars, but especially in these cars. You may have to decide how much A/C means to you to have.

Makmov

It could cost ya.

I know my AC did NOT work when I got my car. I am sure it would have gone into two thousand mark taking it to the dealer.

I was able to work it out myself for about $300, with a replacing a bad hose, reciever drier and balist resistor, not to mention the cooling fan the PO just replaced a month earlier, which at MSRP was over a grand in just parts to get the AC working.

However, I used it today and it was blowing cubes so it survived the winter without loosing its charge.

Part of a 20 year old Porsche ownership is being able to work on it.

2 months in, lost the clutch pedal - imagine not knowing anything about it and towing it to the dealer for a $2K clutch job.

Fixed with a .65 cent roll pin and a couple hours of my time.

CC did not work could have been any number of hundreds of dollars in parts just trying to figure it out.

Fixed for $0 and 20-30 mins R&Ring the switch and adjusting it correctly

I could go down the list of every little thing I have done to improve the car, in some cases dramatically without spending a fortune on it.

Not everyone can do that though.

MAHack

I agree with the above. The C4s have proven very reliable when properly maintained. Plus, I'll bet most people could drive a C2 and C4 back to back, on the street, and not tell the difference. So, don't shy away from a C4 that is a really nice example just because of the extra maintenance. I'd rather have a 80K mile C4 that has a stack of receipts from the PO, nice paint, and great wheels than a C2 that was an unknown in the maintenance dept....wait a minute...I do! haha

I just bought my 964 C4 a few weeks ago and with similar mileage for about the price that this CL car is advertised for. I couldn't be more pleased with it.


-Mark

911Jetta

Great PPI comments above.

Here's a link to the PPI list at the 964 DIY forum, lots more good info. there: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=19642

Oh the oil guage pressure guage...

Don't be too concerned if it's closer to 2 bar. My oil is at just under 2 bars at idle. The important thing is that the pressure follows the revs and that needle sits at 5 bar from 3000 revs and above.

Oil temp. I rarely see 9 o' clock... if you're driving it around enough for the car to fully warm up, the guage should rise to 8:30 ish and then drop down again...kind of fun to watch that happen. Also means the oil themostat is working correctly (very important). I wouldn't expect to see oil temps at 9, unless it was very hot outside and you are sitting in traffic...at the very least oil temp should rise, then lower as the themo. opens and then go back up. Not past 9 though. For kicks feel the passenger's side front fender (by the bumper), it should be warm if the oil thermo has opened and the oil cooler fan is working.

Oil level guage. I would worry about if I saw it anywhere above 3 o' clock (after it idled enough to actually show the correct level). I feel comfortable with it showing a little less than 3 all the way to the top of the red mark. Even at the top of the red mark, there's still a large margin of safety.

I'm laughing at what I just wrote. I hope it's all true and correct, but it's just crazy that it could be so detailed.

Good luck! How's your stomach, it's tense buying one of these wonderful cars!

Makmov

I actually have both a 90 C2 and a 91 C4 at the moment, and I prefer the C4 even in the dry.

The C4 has an ever so slight understeer, but it sure feel more planted. I found the C2 to be a little light and floaty in the front. Maybe I am just used to driving the C4 which has a couple hundred pounds more in the front.

MAHack

I know what you are saying about the light front end feel. My 06 997 has that, especially at speed. The 964 C4's front end feels glued to the road and I find myself driving it more.

-Mark

Jim Richards

Hasn't that Seattle car been on the market for a few months now? I'm pretty sure I saw that ad when I was first starting to look for a 964 to buy. I wonder why it hasn't sold already?