danwink

Hey all,

I am finally nearing the time I can purchase a 911- it has been a goal for many years.

I have made some decisions- and am 90% on a 964/993 and am looking to stay in the 25K range, certainly willing to stretch a bit for the right car.

I won't go to a liquid cooled car for any reason, I just want an air cooled 911- nothing personal, it's just what I want.

I find myself floating back and forth on the 964 and 993- love the classic look of the 964, but love the sexy aero look of the 993- and I would be the 993's will hold value better as the last air cooled 911's.

As I started to search, and interesting dilemma started to appear. In this price range, I am seeing some 930's (an 87 in particular) that has caught my eye. I would be interested in any opinions from this group on the 930 vs. 964/993 perspective. There are lots of good discussions on the 964/993 and I think it will truly come down to just finding the right car, I think I would be happy with either, but the 930 throws a wrench into things for me.


Oh, and I am struggling with Cab versus coupe as well... but that is for another day!!

Regulatori

How much seat time do you have in each?

I was set on getting a 993 until I drove one. It just lacked something that I couldn't put my finger on. After driving a 964 I fell in love and realized this is the car for me.

930s are nice but they're a totally different car from the 964/993. It really depends on what you're looking for.
If you want a more raw 911 with gobs of power, go for a 930. There is just something special about the torsion bar cars and (in my personal opinion), they feel more "connected" to the driver.
If you want a more civilized 911 with some creature comforts (ABS, power steering, 5 speed, coil spring suspension, air bags, better air conditioning, better sound deadening), and just more of a "modern" feel, go with a 964/993. I think a 964/993 would be a better daily driver.

I'm sure a lot of people will disagree but if this is your first Porsche, I would look at an 87-89 3.2 Carrera and then compare it to a 964/993. The 87-89 Carrera has an updated 5 speed and a very reliable/easy to work on car. I just think a 3.2 car would be a better match for a brand new Porsche 911 owner.

I had a 911SC targa (not a cab but similar) and currently have a 964 coupe. Both have their benefits and it's really up to you. I did notice that my 964 coupe felt a lot of stiffer and was quieter in side. But the sun on your face/wind in your hair (and hearing the flat six) was great in the targa. I prefer the coupe after owning both though.

danwink

Sadly, I don't have a lot of seat time in any 911!!

I do have fairly extensive experience autocrossing and HDPE, so I am not a novice to the sportscar world, but I have owned a number of VW/AUDI, BMW, and a couple of japanese and american cars before I caught the european bug.

I built and played with a Miata Turbo for a couple of years- very raw car and very fast (300HP, 2000 pounds), no power steering, etc.

Living in Las Vegas, the roads are very nice, the sun is very hot (so a cab is nice during the winter, but in the summer- nighttime only) and we have access to a lot of tracks. I know I could put a roll bar in a cab, but I wonder how the soft top and the questionable Porsche AC systems would work when it is 120 degrees.

I have considered a 87-89, but I have a feeling I would miss the extra power from the newer cars.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the 964 is the right answer, but 930's may be something to consider as well

Thanks for the thoughts, I think I need to find a way to get myself some seat time.

mike9186

I was in the same situation as you a year ago with the same budget too. I turned 40 and wanted to treat myself to something I've always wanted since I was a kid. Since this is a 3rd car that will live it's life at my weekend house I settled on $25K being the budget I could personally justify spending on a toy. At your budget you are not likely going to find an 'investment' vehicle (like a 993 C2S), plus the cars you are looking at are fully depreciated a this point so your 'return' will be based on finding a car that doesn't need a lot of money spent on it to replace aging components. I might even wager that the vanilla 964s will ultimately hold their value better over the very long term due to the relative scarcity and the fact that so many were turned into track cars over the years. Coupes with a manual tranny are getting really hard to find.

One thing that I recommend is you read and read and read through both the 964 and 993 forums and get a feel for common strengths and weaknesses of each model. Like you I started with a well established set of aesthetic requirements (I never thought I could live with a black car, now I'm totally in love with it) .

My conclusion at the end of my lengthy obsessive compulsive reading frenzy was that the 964 and 993 share a lot of engineering design in common and, since I like both body styles, that finding a well maintained car was the most important thing. There is a premium on the 993 at the moment and in general you will get more car for your $25k budget in a 964 than you will in a 993.

I took my time and looked for cars that were for sale by owners that appeared to be enthusiasts. I stayed away from dealers because these cars are so old that they either being sold by scumbag dealerships or they are pristine specimens being sold by the classic car guys at a huge premium.

I finally found a 964 right here in the classified section and did the PPI and bought it sight unseen from a great guy in Memphis. It has been a blast to own and become part of the community here.

Good luck and enjoy the search!

altarchsa

Las Vegas = 964/993, IMO. A/C on my earlier 911's would not keep up in LV.

Turbo vs. 964, raw vs. more civilized.

Maybe you could visit a few PCA meetings and/or autocrosses, tell your story and convince some owners of each to let you drive their cars. I would be happy to let you drive mine if I were there.

They're very different and impressions are so subjective. I wouldn't decide based on others' opinions.

Jr250

Im also about to Purchaser my First 911 in coming week after years of dreaming about it too. I'm set the more traditional lines of the 964 despite the fact that the 993 is the more evolved of the two with better rear suspension and engine electronics.
If I was to give you my own 2 cents I would avoid going to a turbo...at least for your first.
More complicated, costly to maintain. And probably not needed for your first Porsche experience.
Ample performance is available with the naturally aspirated cars, for your first one.
Your budget will go further both for the initial buy and maintenance.

Again, I'm not an official member of the club yet. I'm about to put the money down this week on a 92 coupe C2' black.
Had a few sleepless nights re. 993 vs 964 but I'm just not in love with the front end styling of the newer 993.
Good luck too

batty

I think they're all great cars. But being 12 to 20 years old, the condition of the car will ultimately matter much more to your long term enjoyment than whether it is a 964/993/930. I would strive to test drive any vehicle that you are considering (though obviously some people have had success by remotely with a PPI). I think the an upgraded suspension is key as is a relatively leak free car. Find one of those and you're well on your way. Good luck!

Moffman

For that price range the 964 would fit right in there, I personally don't like the look of the 993 it looks bloated in my opinion.

It really all depends on what your looking for, if you want a car that will make you go through more pants then a growths-pert when you put the accelerator down then look for the 930. However the maintenance on this turbo lag beasts are also quite more then say a 911 3.2/SC. Its also to raw and lacks modern amenities as many have noted before me which is too barbaric for some people.

The 911 3.2 would be an also excellent choice as Regulatori has noted. But remember there is no such thing as a cheap porsche.

The 964 is in the middle of modern and classic (more on the modern side in my opinion) and thats what makes it such a great daily driver, with powersteering, a decent AC system, etc.

Like many have said its all what your looking for.

Greg964

Sounds like the 964 fits the bill. your $25k budget will get you a fair 993 or 930 with no room for mods or repairs. You can find a very nice 964 for $20k and have some $$ left for maintenance and mods. 964 is the the perfect middle ground between 911 rawness and 993 refinement.

-nick

Look for a $20k 964 and spend the remaining $5k on some serious AC upgrades for Vegas!

Really, you need to just go out and drive one before you do anything. The 930's drive completely differently than the 964 (manual steering, 4-speed, laggy turbo). In stock form the 930 doesn't feel much faster than a stock 964 in my opinion. Of course, you can remedy that much more easily with a 930.

Either way, enjoy!

danwink

Thank you, good advice.

The 964 feels right, I am going to try to focus in on them.

Last question (for now), Any options that should be considered critical on 964's (I know I have seen LSD's), and I agree with an unmolested car, but if I find one with some tasteful upgrades (suspension, exhaust) that would be nice- what upgrades are really nice for 964's?

tim911pcar

You Living in vegas I would stay away from the 930.... If you lived on country roads, could be a different story. In a 930 you would leave one stop light , get on it , feel the boost 1 bar of coarse, That 1st gear is super long.. Heart is beating like mad, now your pretty up there in the mphs... ahhhhh another stop light as you go sliding threw it .. no abs.... Im Sure your not sliding threw it, just making a point that you need alot of road to enjoy the 930. Also a 930 will run hot on any stop and go traffic as well. The gears are so long on the 4 speeds. And to enjoy the car you need to use them.
A 964 is perfect, you can drive her everyday with ac or with out, just a great all around car.. she will not run hot and neither will you. Nothing worse than getting out of your car, going to a nice place and your back is covered in sweat that is bleeding threw your nice shirt .. I also think you could find a very nice c2 cab in your price range... Good luck, sorry so winded on my 930 story.

danwink

Great story- not a problem on the winded!

C2 search commenced. Still thinking through the cab thing, but I suspect the AC and insulated top will do an adequate job here in Vegas of keeping me cool from May-September when it is 100's.

danwink

Mmmmmmm Like this one!!

http://click.messages.autotrader.com...1f109762bbd89e

stevepaa

I would stay away from black in Vegas. Go grey or white because of the heat.