mwneedham

Have been running 18" Mich. Pilot Sport tires for a about 2 years (less than 7,000 miles) doing 4-5 track events per year. Does each track event "heat cycle" the tire and make them harder and perform with less stick? For 90% track use, it is better to buy a less durable tire and change them more frequently? At this point, I want the best tire for the track without regard for longevity but still need to drive to the track.
Thanks for the help and insight. MWN

DWS964

You might try posting over on the Racing and DE forum. Lots of help (and sometimes even more opinions) over there.
I will be anxious to see the responses and answers - I am approaching the same strategy/decision on tires for track time.

ian89C4

I am using Toyo R888's right now - a great intro R-comp tire. Sticky enough for me anyways. Toyo's are renowned for their ability to remain pretty sticky until they are fully gone - almost to the cords. They also last a long time (for an R-compound), tread life is 140 I believe, so you can drive to the track without destroying them.
If you can find the Toyo RA-1's in your size I would recommend those, they are the previous version to the R-888's and are considered a much better tire all around, longevity and stickyness.

If that is not enough tread wear for you - High performance summer tires are a good substitute.

Good luck with the search

Marc Shaw

I use MPSC R-comps and consider each time out on track as one heat cycle (cold-hot-cold) and not each day as one cycle.

I will usually get about 20-25 cycles on each set as I'll see a huge drop in grip when the cycles start to get up there (as evidenced by worsening lap times).

Marc

boxsey911

+1 on the Toyo R888s. I've had mine for 2 years now. I do a similar amount of track days and although they're not as sticky now as the first time out, they still provide way more grip than road tyres. The other pleasant surprise is that they're lasting twice as long as the road tyres I used to run on track.

I've just picked up a set of part worn MPSCs. These were used on a race car last year and were used for 3 or 4 races (which makes them about half worn). It will be interesting to see how they compare to the Toyos.

Frank 993 C4S

I have run Toyo R compound previously and currently have Nitto NT01 tires mounted as the Toyos seem to be tough to come by in the US. These R compound tires are great track tires but they are very loud (so loud that I initially thought I had a bad wheel bearing) on the road.

My personal preference would be Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (MPSC - had them on my GT3) as they last longer (about twice as long than the Toyos) and are quieter on the road. The two downsides to the Michelins is that they are not available for 17" wheels (only 18") and are twice as expensive as the Toyos or Nittos. Downside for the Toyo/Nottos is that they get very squirly towards the end of their life, whereas you get very consistent performance with the MPSCs all the way to the end.

+1

cobalt

I am on my 5th or 6th set of R888's IMO the best bang for the buck. Sticky enough, consistent throughout once scrubbed in. Don't require shaving unless you want to. I started with the RA-1's which I liked but found them to peak and drop off quickly and in my sizes the R888's are cheaper. I also used MPSC's which I did not like although I am a Michelin fan these took too long to warm up and I found they got hard much faster than the R888's. The car is shared between my wife and myself and the last pair I got 21 track days out of the tires or nearly 84 hours of track time out of them. There was some tread left on them and i made the mistake of using them at the last AX event of the season last year and they were like skates but it was just for fun and didn't want to use my new tires for AX. They are Ok but not great for AX because they don't heat up fast enough but will do an adequate job. For track you really can't go wrong.

Also pressures are critical as with any performance tire. Anything above 40 PSI and they turn to grease.

mwneedham

Thanks to all for the help and input. Based on the information, if each track "session" is a heat cycle and I do 5 sessions per track event and do 5 events per year, that is 25 heat cycles. So now that I have done two years on these tires, that is 50 cycles. I am getting me some new Toyo's. It is LONG over due. No wonder I feel like I have less grip.

Thanks again to all. MWN

ValveFloat

Its nice to hear that other 964ers like the R888s. I am only on my first set of them, but I really like them. The GT3 and 944 guys really dislike the R888s...
I have also used the Nitto NT-01s, and I liked them as well, but after a couple events they are basically smooth. For the trip to and from the track I wanted something with some hope of working if it rains, so I like that the grooves in the R888 remain for most of the life of the tire.

race911

I can't dispute what each of you have experienced, but I've got reams of data to back up pretty much every session I've had on track since I got back into things in 1998 with the '92 C4.

Cut to the chase on what's currently available and what I've used.

Michelins have a very steep drop off after about 25 heat cycles, and are extremely poor in cold weather. I lost massive balance out of the front when they went away on the RSA race car. I quit using them after two sets. I had an opportunity to use another older set on the recently sold RSA at Laguna last year. Horrible. 5 seconds off what I'd done the previous year with some absolutely toasted Toyo RA1s (1:50 v. 1:45). 225/255-17 size.

Toyo RA1s. Bulletproof, and the standard I use to judge data across several 911s of my own and others, plus the Spec Miata. I recently was given a couple of sets of 2005 dated 245/275-18s, and threw them on the faux 993RS. With 50 miles of scrub in, I pulled a 2:01 flat out of my *** on the full track at Thunderhill. Pretty equal to my best ever, which happened on some 235/275-17s that were about 4 years old and nearly showing cord on the rear. Similarly, I did a best of 2:07.7 last November on Thunderhill bypass with the SM on some bald 2007 dated ones on the same day our newly crowned SCCA Regional SM champion pulled a best of 2:05.5 after a day of fiddling with pressures and alignment. A month later I had an old set of 2003 dated 3/4 treads mounted on a 50F day and did a 2:10 flat (chasing a 911!) on the full track. SM track record is ~2:07.

From what I hear, NT01s are just as good as they're basically the same tire.

Geoffrey

I have found that the MPSC tires lose grip noticably after 8 heat cycles on a car driven at racing speeds.