Alternator Issue
10-11-2010, 06:34 PM
#16
I will leave it with some bloke from work tomorrow and see if its the battery. It says the float charge state is 0.2 to 0.7 amps, it doesn't mean a lot to me but seems to be relevant to the what you guys are mentioning.
This is the unit i have
http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/prod....asp?prod=1372
http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/imag...martcharge.asp
If its not the battery after tests tomorrow i will put it back on and try the lil bast'd tests. Then i can send the alternator to our Diagnostic work shop in Watford for repair if needed.
BTW the battery is six months old.
This is the unit i have
http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/prod....asp?prod=1372
http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/imag...martcharge.asp
If its not the battery after tests tomorrow i will put it back on and try the lil bast'd tests. Then i can send the alternator to our Diagnostic work shop in Watford for repair if needed.
BTW the battery is six months old.
10-11-2010, 06:38 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Nice charger dude !
If I were you and I could be without the car for a day or two ,
I would take the batter out charge it fully and let it sit for 24 hours ,
then test the voltage . Did the voltage say up or did the voltage drop ?
If I were you and I could be without the car for a day or two ,
I would take the batter out charge it fully and let it sit for 24 hours ,
then test the voltage . Did the voltage say up or did the voltage drop ?
10-12-2010, 03:27 PM
#18
Some confusion here.
First, do you have a maintainer or a charger - they are two different things.
Second, a battery at 12.4 VDC is not 100% charged, it is 93% charged. A battery is a series of 6 wet cells, each producing 2.1-2.2 VDC and wired in series. The battery should read 12.6-13.2 VDC if 100%. Causes for the low value could be; a.) a poor quality or faulty maintainer which 'drops out' early b.) low battery electrolyte c.) damaged battery plate(s) d.) sulphate buildup on the plates. If the battery is more than 4 years old, it is nearing the end of it's useful life. To keep it in service can overwork the alternator and cause it to fail prematurely and also increase your cost/mi. due to lessened Range (MPG).
The gauge reading '0' could be several things; a.) faulty gauge b.) poor or corroded wiring and/or connections as has been suggested c.) a faulty drop-out relay (this kills all appliances and ancillaries to temporarily dedicate all the battery power to the starter, fuel pump and ignition) d.) faulty ignition switch
The battery and alternator should be tested under load. You can do this yourself with a DMM (digital multi-meter) as follows:
1: Disconnect negative (-) battery cable and set the DMM to VDC. Place one lead to the positive (+) terminal of the battery and the other to the negative (-) terminal. This should read 12.6-13.2 VDC. Use a DMM, do not rely on the dash gauge or maintainer indicator.
2: Reconnect the battery and start the car, turn on all the appliances - headlights, radio, heater, etc., maintain 1100 RPMs and take the same reading again. You want to see 13.5-14.5 VDC - this is the alternator output spec for the Bosch alternator. If the value is lower, and the battery has already been ruled out, one or more pairs of diodes in the voltage regulator is faulty - this voltage regulator or diode pac is externally mounted on the alternator and can be replaced separately.
3: Now, engine running 1100+ RPM, DMM set to VAC (AC Voltage), place test leads on each battery terminal. The value you want is 0 or nothing (depending on the DMM). If you have any other value, the diode pac is leaking VAC back to the battery and is faulty.
The answers to your questions will lay in one of these.
Cheers!
First, do you have a maintainer or a charger - they are two different things.
Second, a battery at 12.4 VDC is not 100% charged, it is 93% charged. A battery is a series of 6 wet cells, each producing 2.1-2.2 VDC and wired in series. The battery should read 12.6-13.2 VDC if 100%. Causes for the low value could be; a.) a poor quality or faulty maintainer which 'drops out' early b.) low battery electrolyte c.) damaged battery plate(s) d.) sulphate buildup on the plates. If the battery is more than 4 years old, it is nearing the end of it's useful life. To keep it in service can overwork the alternator and cause it to fail prematurely and also increase your cost/mi. due to lessened Range (MPG).
The gauge reading '0' could be several things; a.) faulty gauge b.) poor or corroded wiring and/or connections as has been suggested c.) a faulty drop-out relay (this kills all appliances and ancillaries to temporarily dedicate all the battery power to the starter, fuel pump and ignition) d.) faulty ignition switch
The battery and alternator should be tested under load. You can do this yourself with a DMM (digital multi-meter) as follows:
1: Disconnect negative (-) battery cable and set the DMM to VDC. Place one lead to the positive (+) terminal of the battery and the other to the negative (-) terminal. This should read 12.6-13.2 VDC. Use a DMM, do not rely on the dash gauge or maintainer indicator.
2: Reconnect the battery and start the car, turn on all the appliances - headlights, radio, heater, etc., maintain 1100 RPMs and take the same reading again. You want to see 13.5-14.5 VDC - this is the alternator output spec for the Bosch alternator. If the value is lower, and the battery has already been ruled out, one or more pairs of diodes in the voltage regulator is faulty - this voltage regulator or diode pac is externally mounted on the alternator and can be replaced separately.
3: Now, engine running 1100+ RPM, DMM set to VAC (AC Voltage), place test leads on each battery terminal. The value you want is 0 or nothing (depending on the DMM). If you have any other value, the diode pac is leaking VAC back to the battery and is faulty.
The answers to your questions will lay in one of these.
Cheers!
The battery was fine but the multimeter was shot.
@ Indycam - I had the guys test it, and as it was nearly full they gave it some abuse to see if it was fine, and it stood up perfectly.
@ Lil bastard - So after leaving the battery on charge all day at work. I fitted it tonight and this is what results i have.
1: 12.7v
2: 13.55v
3: Not sure...
I don't use mulitmeters for much other than the bare minimum so i have enclosed a pic. I used the setting to the left of the "off" point. Don't know if its the right feature, as i though it was the setting to the right, but both gave a reading other than 0.
Could my diode pac be leaking? Next question - Can I replace with a part from bosch if needed by simply matching part numbers and calling Bosch?
Also if the diode pac is leaking what will it do?
Last edited by Unkle; 10-12-2010 at 05:53 PM.
10-13-2010, 12:37 AM
#19
Nordschleife Master
On your meter , dc voltage is to the left of 12:00 , ac voltage is to the right of 12:00 .
Can you please remove the leads from the bottom of the meter and redo the photo ?
"Could my diode pac be leaking?"
Sure . Diodes go bad sometimes .
"Also if the diode pac is leaking what will it do?"
It could cause your alternator to put out AC ,
It could cause your alternator to not put out DC ,
It could cause your batter to drain .
"Can I replace with a part from bosch if needed by simply matching part numbers and calling Bosch?"
The diodes are hiding inside the alternator .
If you want to replace the diodes you will need to remove the alternator from the motor ,
open up the alternator , remove the old diodes , replace the diodes , reassemble the alternator , test that the alternator is working well , put it back on the motor ...
You could take your car with the tested good battery to a shop and have them attach their meter and "see" what the alternator is doing .
Did you take the clock out and redo the solder joints ?
Can you please remove the leads from the bottom of the meter and redo the photo ?
"Could my diode pac be leaking?"
Sure . Diodes go bad sometimes .
"Also if the diode pac is leaking what will it do?"
It could cause your alternator to put out AC ,
It could cause your alternator to not put out DC ,
It could cause your batter to drain .
"Can I replace with a part from bosch if needed by simply matching part numbers and calling Bosch?"
The diodes are hiding inside the alternator .
If you want to replace the diodes you will need to remove the alternator from the motor ,
open up the alternator , remove the old diodes , replace the diodes , reassemble the alternator , test that the alternator is working well , put it back on the motor ...
You could take your car with the tested good battery to a shop and have them attach their meter and "see" what the alternator is doing .
Did you take the clock out and redo the solder joints ?
10-13-2010, 05:45 AM
#20
Ok will do when i get home from work. I did have it set to the right of 12:00 and i still got a reading. But i will post a pic up.
If i send the alternator to our Workshop for assessment at least i can refurb the fan!!
I didn't do anything with the clock yet. I want to look at one thing at a time and i tried to move the clock but it is so tight I think i'm going to break something, or damage the dash when i remove it. It makes the alternator seem like an easy job!
If i send the alternator to our Workshop for assessment at least i can refurb the fan!!
I didn't do anything with the clock yet. I want to look at one thing at a time and i tried to move the clock but it is so tight I think i'm going to break something, or damage the dash when i remove it. It makes the alternator seem like an easy job!
Last edited by Unkle; 10-13-2010 at 08:26 AM.
10-24-2010, 02:43 PM
#21
Hi
Just thought i would close this thread off with an update.
I had my alternator checked and it was ok, however for 20quid I asked them to change the regulator and brushes, didn't want to be on a long trip and find that I should have replaced those parts while it was out. Also noticed that with the bonnet up and pulling fuses the light switch for the bonnet gave a great deal of resistance (ohms I think not sure) on the battery. I have heard this could be a possible drain, Push the button in and the resistance on the battery disappeared, so I pulled the plug on the bonnet light anyway and went on a visit to relatives (2 hour drive). Came home in the dark and put the multimeter on the battery straight away and it read 12.97volts.
Looks like perhaps a mixture of the 2 sorted it, either way on my long trips to Europe its one less thing to worry about.
So thanks for the advice and help.
Just thought i would close this thread off with an update.
I had my alternator checked and it was ok, however for 20quid I asked them to change the regulator and brushes, didn't want to be on a long trip and find that I should have replaced those parts while it was out. Also noticed that with the bonnet up and pulling fuses the light switch for the bonnet gave a great deal of resistance (ohms I think not sure) on the battery. I have heard this could be a possible drain, Push the button in and the resistance on the battery disappeared, so I pulled the plug on the bonnet light anyway and went on a visit to relatives (2 hour drive). Came home in the dark and put the multimeter on the battery straight away and it read 12.97volts.
Looks like perhaps a mixture of the 2 sorted it, either way on my long trips to Europe its one less thing to worry about.
So thanks for the advice and help.
