View Poll Results: Which car to DE?
964
42
77.78%
928
10
18.52%
You're crazy to take either!
2
3.70%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
Which car to DE - 964 or 928?
03-31-2010, 09:07 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Steve, the 928 is a GT car and meant to cruise in, not so much racing it. I transformed my 944 to a beast and will be tracking that. My 928 is and will always be my favorite. That car on GTG/runs is far superior to the 911 or 944 in that respect for comfort.
For my 944, if you see me, watch out, it is a sleeper that has far more hp than expected. The 911 guys told me that this car after Jason finishes is not one they intend to go up against. There thoughts were since the weight distribution is perfect in the 944, I will be able to track better. I have no idea until I actually try it. See you at Bald Hill on Tuesdays in the Spring.
For my 944, if you see me, watch out, it is a sleeper that has far more hp than expected. The 911 guys told me that this car after Jason finishes is not one they intend to go up against. There thoughts were since the weight distribution is perfect in the 944, I will be able to track better. I have no idea until I actually try it. See you at Bald Hill on Tuesdays in the Spring.
03-31-2010, 11:24 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
I own both and i voted 964 because that is what I DE. Although either is good choice. it all depends on your preferences. Don't let the 911 guys tell you the 928 can't handle because it can although quite different from a 911 in characteristics it is quite a capable car. The 911 is far more toss-able compared to a 928 but the 928 has V8 grunt and torque and is well balanced I do find it is more tail happy than my 964. The rear weight bias of the 964 has a larger learning curve but I find the 50/50 balance of the 928 has a tendency to be a little light in the back end and IMO is easier to come around than a 911 under more controlled conditions. the 911 on the other hand will bite you harder if you F up.
So I don't think you will be disappointed with either choice. It all depends on what you feel most comfortable with at speed. Either car can be made to handle better than stock and can be setup to be fast on the track. I have a lot of fun driving with 928's on most of the tracks I drive. I find that GT's are pretty much close to performance although the 964 can be pushed a little harder and inevitably the 928 is in the rear view mirror. But you are out there to learn to dive fast not to race so as long as there is a smile on your face what difference does it make.
So I don't think you will be disappointed with either choice. It all depends on what you feel most comfortable with at speed. Either car can be made to handle better than stock and can be setup to be fast on the track. I have a lot of fun driving with 928's on most of the tracks I drive. I find that GT's are pretty much close to performance although the 964 can be pushed a little harder and inevitably the 928 is in the rear view mirror. But you are out there to learn to dive fast not to race so as long as there is a smile on your face what difference does it make.
03-31-2010, 11:40 AM
#18
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I would go with the 928 because you are already comfortable and confident with that car. This time out you want to focus on learning track driving. Next time when you understand what you are doing out there, take the 964 as it is a better track car IMHO.
Maybe even auto X the 964 in between your first and second DE event.
Eitherway you cannot really go wrong.
Maybe even auto X the 964 in between your first and second DE event.
Eitherway you cannot really go wrong.
03-31-2010, 10:14 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies!!! They have not made my decision any easier though - lots of good points in either direction!
Here are some of my thoughts to some of your comments:
You are right. Every time I am near the 964, I do really want to!!!
Really good point - I think this thought process is the most striking to me right now - get to learn the 964 much faster by getting it on the track.
Drew - thanks. I was really hoping that an instructor was going to chime in. This is great advice. I am, of course, going to make sure either car is 110% in terms of brakes, tires, safety, etc. before I take it on the track. I know that I am going to be the weakest link for quite some time, so I am not going to worry about track mods, etc. until I improve as a driver.
Dan, thanks. Good points. I am keen on the safety, as I mentioned above. And thanks for the input regarding spinning, etc.. I am not too concerned about that (with either the 928 or 964) because, as you mentioned, I am a novice and am not going to be racing...
I will make sure that whichever car goes next month, it will be completely tech inspected, and 110% safe, but the reliability is something that I do not yet know about the 964. The 928 has been bullet-proof for the last 7 years (knocks wood...). Either way, I guess if I am not 110% confident with either car, I will not take it.
Thanks Cobalt - I do like the 'tossable' nature of the 964 compared to the 928 also, and I think you are onto something, that it would be more fun on the track. I do find the 928 very forgiving, and I am sure you are right about the consequences of a mistake with the 911.
Good point - I do want to focus more on my driving than the car, so maybe the 928 is the way to go...
Again, Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input!
I am still waffling, but think I am leaning towards the 964 at this point...
Here are some of my thoughts to some of your comments:
It's not about which car is better, it's about which car you want to drive better.
Take the 964 to the DE, even though you've only had it a short while, one DE will add years to your drivers' experience and it will go along way towards alleviating much of the concern you currently have due to your lack of 964 seat time. Plus doing a DE with a manual will also add a lot to the experince.
Take the 964 to the DE, even though you've only had it a short while, one DE will add years to your drivers' experience and it will go along way towards alleviating much of the concern you currently have due to your lack of 964 seat time. Plus doing a DE with a manual will also add a lot to the experince.
Speaking as an instructor, I think one of the biggest mistakes new track drivers make is focusing too much on equipment, that is, the perfect car, the right mods, tires, etc. The best DE car at this level is a functioning car that has properly-serviced brakes and good tires (among all the other safety and reliability checks a car should go through before being driven on the track). Your first track days should be focused on you, the driver. Truthfully, you could bring out a minivan and still learn a ton. That being said, I think the better choice of your two available cars for DE is the 964. Forget about the "difficult to drive" reputation. You are going to be relearning most of what you think you already know anyway. The 911 platform has proven to be a very reliable (and very satisfying) car to use on the track, as evidenced by how many are out there at every event. It is a great car to learn performance driving in.
Steve, I wouldn't hesitate one moment to use the 964. You have a great opportunity. In two days you will have learned a lot about the new car and your skill set will have grown double. As far as spinning, get that out of your head. Every car can be spun while pushing the envelope. Your a Novice, go at your own pace you feel comfortable with. Its a DE and not a race. You'll have an instructor at all times to help guide you.
I would go through the car as mentioned to make sure its safe. A few things: I would bleed the system and use ATE Super Blue. Make sure you have good pads all around, especially the front. Check your tires for aging and dry rotting. Check tire pressures. Torque the wheel nuts to make sure they are tight 90-95 lbs, especially between sessions. Check your fluid levels especially the oil. You will need to add oil at the track.
Steve, you will have a load of fun and you will be back for more. Be safe.
Dan
I would go through the car as mentioned to make sure its safe. A few things: I would bleed the system and use ATE Super Blue. Make sure you have good pads all around, especially the front. Check your tires for aging and dry rotting. Check tire pressures. Torque the wheel nuts to make sure they are tight 90-95 lbs, especially between sessions. Check your fluid levels especially the oil. You will need to add oil at the track.
Steve, you will have a load of fun and you will be back for more. Be safe.
Dan
Unless you have the time to attend to all the stuff Dan mentions, I would take the 928 on the basis that you know its state of preparation. There's nothing worse than wasting your track time due to finding something is not up to scratch.
You'll discover a whole lot about the ability of the 928 on track and if you take the 964 on the next one (yes, you'll be hooked after the first), you'll find that it's a whole lot more capable on track than the 928
You'll discover a whole lot about the ability of the 928 on track and if you take the 964 on the next one (yes, you'll be hooked after the first), you'll find that it's a whole lot more capable on track than the 928
I own both and i voted 964 because that is what I DE. Although either is good choice. it all depends on your preferences. Don't let the 911 guys tell you the 928 can't handle because it can although quite different from a 911 in characteristics it is quite a capable car. The 911 is far more toss-able compared to a 928 but the 928 has V8 grunt and torque and is well balanced I do find it is more tail happy than my 964. The rear weight bias of the 964 has a larger learning curve but I find the 50/50 balance of the 928 has a tendency to be a little light in the back end and IMO is easier to come around than a 911 under more controlled conditions. the 911 on the other hand will bite you harder if you F up.
I would go with the 928 because you are already comfortable and confident with that car. This time out you want to focus on learning track driving. Next time when you understand what you are doing out there, take the 964 as it is a better track car IMHO.
Maybe even auto X the 964 in between your first and second DE event.
Eitherway you cannot really go wrong.
Maybe even auto X the 964 in between your first and second DE event.
Eitherway you cannot really go wrong.
Again, Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input!
I am still waffling, but think I am leaning towards the 964 at this point...
04-01-2010, 01:45 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Just jumping to the end here, but the 928 is an auto? I never got anything out of driving a customer's auto 928 at a DE day back when they were new.
In any case, you won't be going fast enough no matter which car for it to matter in the least.
In any case, you won't be going fast enough no matter which car for it to matter in the least.
04-01-2010, 10:01 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Having owned 2 of each the 964 is the right tool. I love 928's and drove them for 16 years but the rear end will come around without much notice. If you do take it make sure the brakes are in very good condition and bled all the way around and this is true for the 964 also. But 928's with the brake balance off are down right wicked! From experience
The lighter car will be easier to control and learn with.
The lighter car will be easier to control and learn with.
04-01-2010, 11:12 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
04-01-2010, 11:20 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
04-01-2010, 11:51 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Having owned 2 of each the 964 is the right tool. I love 928's and drove them for 16 years but the rear end will come around without much notice. If you do take it make sure the brakes are in very good condition and bled all the way around and this is true for the 964 also. But 928's with the brake balance off are down right wicked! From experience The lighter car will be easier to control and learn with.
The lighter car will be easier to control and learn with.
04-01-2010, 08:32 PM
#26
Moderator
Rennlist Member
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I voted 964 - mine was fantastic on the track. The only advice I'd give is to make sure your alignment is good, with as much negative camber up front as possible for a "street / DE" blend. Depending on how it's set up now you could experience some severe understeer, even at 1st time speeds. Note, this is not your first ever DE, just your first in this car - so you will get some speed going. I always found the 964 an absolutely fun and great car to track. Well balanced, good manners, etc. And don't worry about the shifting thing - don't do anything crazy, complete your braking, down shift with a blip if you aren't comfortable heel / toe with this car yet, and then make your turn. The up shifting is going to knock your socks off Enjoy and report back!
Enjoy and report back!
04-01-2010, 08:48 PM
#27
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Steve, the 928 is a GT car and meant to cruise in, not so much racing it. I transformed my 944 to a beast and will be tracking that. My 928 is and will always be my favorite. That car on GTG/runs is far superior to the 911 or 944 in that respect for comfort.
For my 944, if you see me, watch out, it is a sleeper that has far more hp than expected. The 911 guys told me that this car after Jason finishes is not one they intend to go up against. There thoughts were since the weight distribution is perfect in the 944, I will be able to track better. I have no idea until I actually try it. See you at Bald Hill on Tuesdays in the Spring.
For my 944, if you see me, watch out, it is a sleeper that has far more hp than expected. The 911 guys told me that this car after Jason finishes is not one they intend to go up against. There thoughts were since the weight distribution is perfect in the 944, I will be able to track better. I have no idea until I actually try it. See you at Bald Hill on Tuesdays in the Spring.
To the OP: track the 964 and don't worry about hurting the car. Unless you are the offspring of Hurley Haywood, you will get nowhere near the car's capabilities. Learn to drive a 911 really well and you can drive any car well.
04-01-2010, 09:00 PM
#28
I track my 928, but it has a stiffer suspension than stock. I like 911s, and they are very fun to drive.
Take the car you feel comfortable with. If you have fun, you are much more likely to do it again.
Just do it. It's fun.
Take the car you feel comfortable with. If you have fun, you are much more likely to do it again.
Just do it. It's fun.
04-01-2010, 11:28 PM
#29
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I meant no offense to anyone nor the car they chose for DE's. I simply voted option 3 and made a comment as to why. But I've been running 911's since 1975 and have instructed at SCCA DE's, and the cars I instructed in do not come close to the feel of a 1000 lb purpose built racecar. Running a 964 to start out (to see how much fun it is and how much money it costs) is a good idea. Then you can decide whether or not to step up a level or two.
04-01-2010, 11:33 PM
#30
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Well... I've thought about this some more, and I guess my perspective on using street cars for the track is different than the consensus here. I jumped straight into a winged formula car 10 years ago having never even done a DE - and have done quite well since. If I can do it, others can too. It all depends on what you want.
