umfan866

Hi,

I have been looking for a nice red/black 911 either 87-89 or a 95 993 for under 20k. I came across a 1989 964 with 95k with rebuild already done and it is red/black.. will see it Saturday... but the owner told me a c4 drives different than a regular rear wheel drive Porsche. I am aware that a "normal" 911 will be tail-heavy and although I have not test-driven one to that extreme, I like the safety aspect of having a 4-wheel drive 911 to avoid it spinning out of control. On the other hand, does it eliminate the fun? Also I've read that if the 4-wheel drive parts break, it is very expensive to repair.

This will be my first 964 test drive-- does a 964 have the road feel of the 87-89 911's but the engine power more like a 993?

Nine11

Unless you're pushing the limits, I'd guess you'd never notice the differences between a C2 and a C4. As for expensive repair bills when parts break...all parts are pricey. It's not limited to just C4 components.

umfan866

I've also read about the 964 and 993 rear suspension being re-designed to make the 911 less likely to go out of control.... In another thread here people were saying the 964/993 rear suspension wouldn't be a noticeable difference - but how about 964/993 vs earlier 911's?

I plan to get some driving instruction in any 911 I buy, but how likely is the tail to spin out of control, say in heavy rain on a freeway? Reason: my old rear-wheel drive 86 325 bimmer would fishtail in rain or snow and I'd have to put some sand bags in the trunk to avoid going into a spin or fishtailing badly.

HoBoJoe

I feel safer in my C4 just knowing it's a C4, though i don't think i've pushed it hard enough to worry. I've only driven a C2 cab and my C4, the C4's steering feels heavier than a C2 to me.

Have you driven any 911s yet?

ian89C4

I have not driven a C2, but I know the only time I have ever had the tail end ever come loose on me was coming out of a hairpin turn on a track at the tail end of a 30 minute session on Michelin all weather tires. Even then it was just enough to warrant a small steering correction. The front wheels were still pulling me through the turn however.

The car is a blast!!! I have only ever driven one older 911 (mid 70's if I remember right) and I did not drive it hard enough break anything loose.

If you go to a DE or something like that you will learn to feel when the 964 "plants" her rear end, don't let off the throttle and all will be well.

Good luck!!

Dave White

Tail spin is still possible, less so with a 964/993, and nearly impossible with a C4. It sounds like you would be very comfortable with this car. The AWD parts are stout, even the accelerometers can be cleaned out. If you aren't pushing it, I doubt that you would even know it was AWD, until it rains or snows and you wonder why everyone else is going so slow! Try it, you'll like it.

timatt

In spirited street driving, my '89 C4 has a significant handling advantage over any earlier 911s that I have owned and driven. The C4 is amazingly sure footed in corners and sticks like glue even when accelerating thru a turn with loose grit on the surface. Under acceleration in a corner, I have never broken the rear wheels loose, unlike my earlier 911s. Cornering is simply outstanding. Having never driven a C2, I can't comment on the difference though I'm sure that either the C4 or C2 will feel more refined and powerful than earlier 911 models.

73.5T
'89C4 51k miles
'10 Panamera Turbo uber rocket

tgage

I had two 964's... a c2 and a c4, both in identical condition... I sold the c2. It was all about planting a tire in a turn and go.....

911URGE

Trust me - you can still swing the rear end of a C4 around if you try hard enough. I suggest you learn at an auto-x as to when it will break free. Also, be aware of a heavier steering and the C4 understeer. If you are not used to the understeer it can bite you.

Overall, the C4 does feel very planted and stable but a bit heavy compared to standard 911's. I really enjoy the C4 handling now that I know how it will react.

tbennett017

The C4 understeer can be dialed out with the correct swaybar/spring setup. Ask Steve W at Rennsport. My car now is perfectly neutral, even at the edges.

joey bagadonuts

I've raced both a C2 and C4. As mentioned, suspension mods can certainly change the handling characteristics of any car.

WRT power delivery, the 964 wins hands down! The 993 may have a little more hp but it comes on in a very linear fashion. The 964, on the other hand, really gives a nice shove in the back as you pour it on from 4,000 rpm to red line. It's peaky. Try it ... you'll be hooked.

The earlier cars are light but braking requires significant pedal force--especially at the track--and torsion bars definitely make them feel old. And power is "okay." Add some nice coilovers to a 964, however, and you've got a nearly perfect sports car (it could be lighter).

As for nasty handling characteristics, I'd say that issue might be overstated. Most modern 911's (964-on) are set up to understeer from the Factory, ex. GT3's. Plus you won't need to add weight to the rear to keep it planted in bad weather--the engine takes care of that.

BlueHeeler

I think the handling characteristics of the car have been exaggerated to you. You are not going to just spin out of control in any 911. It is just like any rwd car, just a little more. You have to really be pushing it to have any problems.

911URGE is right. If you want to learn the car and how to drive it, autocross. There you can push it and learn what to do and what not to do without consequence. Get some old fast Porsche guy to ride with you and offer advice.

jzc28

I've had my '89 C4 for less than a year - my first sports car. Drove it daily through the heavy rains we've had in CA this winter. Rock Solid - the car was steady through standing water at freeway speeds even with modest Falken 452 tires. Vacuum wipers worked great at the max setting. No white knuckle driving.

umfan866

Guys,

I just finished test-driving this c4 car today. My first 964 drive - I've test driven about 20 911's, mostly 80's cars, but 1 1974 car, and one 2002 996 (which had absolutely no road feel and I hated the way it drove). I liked this 964 quite a bit. The owner pointed out how I can accelerate out of a curve and the nose stays planted - I was doing 80mph through a curve and the car/tires/suspension all felt super sticky with the 4 wheel drive. This car had a lot of power - it had the power of the 993. The owner had a rebuild done recently and he had put a 993 dual pipe exhaust in which he said allowed the engine to breath more. The engine roared more when stepping on the gas than other cars I have driven and he said that was due to the free-flow exhaust system. We were also testing the A/C which was anemic, and he turned it off because he said it drains power from the car also. Fair enough.

The one thing that was disappointing to me was the road feel. Perhaps it was due to the power steering, or the suspension, but I did not feel the road like in an 87-89 G50 (this was an 89 964). Maybe slightly more road feel than a stock 993, but not mouch. HOWEVER, the owner showed me there was a button there I could select 3 suspension settings, smooth, middle, and rough. He kept it in the middle and always does, but he said I could set it to rough-- but we didn't know if we were allowed to do that while driving, so we didn't touch it. Does anyone know? I would definatley put it to rough if that would help make it give me more roadfeel. Also - could I put coilovers on this car without fuhbaring up the whole 4-wheel drive and current suspension system -- or is that 3-mode setting actually dynamically adjustible suspension?

The one other "downer" and this is just a personal thing - I like the look of "impact bumpers" better, and just in front of the wheel well the 964's have this horizontal -type piece- I like in the earlier cars how you can put a vertical black strip there. Maybe I could still do that on the 964 anyway. I do like Fuchs better too, but the wheels weren't bad. He had potenza tires on them - don't know what I would get next but probably not Potenzas.

gmiz

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