wellcraft290

oracle where did you get your information that a c2 is faster then a c4? you just think it is because of teh extra weight or you know? because everything i have seen from test data has shown the c4 to be faster due to the extra grip.
Just curious and if I need to I will post the links of teh c4 beating the c2 in 0-60 and 1/4 from testing by quite a big difference as well.

Magdaddy

There must be at least 25 993 C4S's listed for sale right now, the vast majority are dealer listings. There was one museum piece with less than 1800 miles on it, it was listed at a starting price of $80K. Another had over 110K miles on it, no mention of what maintenance was done, and that was $31.9K.

The vast majority listed, are 30-50K mile cars, and are all listed between $39-54K.

As far as my budget goes, it's more a self imposed limit, than an ability to spend, if that makes any sense. I could afford to spend much more than I will, is putting it simply enough. I would have no problem spending $30k for a car-that would be 993 category probably. I couldn't imagine having to spend that kinda money on a 964.

I'm looking for a well cared for driver, that I can enjoy...regardles of the weather outside.

My last Audi-a 90 Coupe Quattro was an absolute hoot in the snow. I had a coil over fully adjustable suspension on it(height and dampening with external adj Koni's), all delrin bushings, a very sweet Scorpion exhaust, Nokians all around, and big ole rally lights bolted to the front bumper. When the weather was at it's worst, that car was at it's best. I miss it terribly.

I have seen listings for supposidly well cared for 964 C4's in the mid teens, to low twenties. I never paid a lot of attention, because I'm so drawn to the widebody look. A WB 964 C4-considering it's rarity, would likely be too expensive anyway. The asking prices for the 993 C4 cars, either NB or WB seem too high to me. There have been a few owner listings, asking in the high twenties for the car-that seems reasonalbe. However, that price range seems to be the exception, and not the rule.

The biggest difference, and the one pushing me toward the 964, isn't really price, but winter performance. There simply seems to be no question that the 964 series awd, is better than either the 993, and even the 996. Realistically here in Central New York, I have the winter wheelset on whatever vehicle I'm driving, from late November till the end of April. I simply will not accept that I'll have to garage my future Porsche for half of the year.

I know that subjecting these cars to winter use is unthinkable, to those of you in many climate's-probably to even some here in the Northeast. IMHO, it's better to enyjoy these cars in every environment, than wait till spring to pull the cover off of it.

I've had many low mileage, never seen rain-let alone snow garage queens in my life. When it came time to sell them, I rarely got enough extra to make up for the loss of use. The ownership experience should be an experience, an OUTDOOR experience.

Whatever Porsche graces my driveway, will be loved and methodically cared for. I plan on it getting the same amount of praise for apperance, in all seasons. It'll have either a bike rack, or ski rack on top of it during the season also. I can only imagine how much more enjoyable the trip(actual driving part) to the trailhead, the race, or the ski trail head-will be with the Porsche.

wellcraft290

Oh after your last post I suggest you go with a 993. They will fit your needs better..
Plus I don't want someone to drive another 964 into the ground with salt etc and ruin the last of the real looking 911's. destroy a car that will just go down in history as another porsche the 993 and for your budget why not just really go and buy a 996 because they are very cheap and have feature comforts and honestly noone in 10 years will wonder where that car went

dfinnegan

The hours a Porsche spends parked, you don't get those back.

I've been driving my C4 in NY for almost five years. I mount snow tires in the winter and it is remarkably capable. I switch to dedicated summer tires in the spring and it is, again, remarkably capable.

With regard to the AWD system, I've had to replace a pair of CV joints in the front, and the lateral slave cylinder.

Any of these cars can present the owner with a large repair bill. I don't believe that the C4 is any different from the C2 in that regard. History is far more important.

Bottom line, I very much enjoy driving, and owning, this car; both Summer and Winter.

Magdaddy

Porsche attraction for me, as long as I can remember...
1-wide body look
2-air cooled goodness

Porsche attraction recently
1-awd for year round use

Previously I posted about my 84-89 M-491 or Turbo lust. Honestly, I never liked(ok appreciated) the look of the more integrated bumpers on the 964 series cars. When I decide on a C4 car, I had to expand my choices.

While a 996 is certainly in my budget, even a Turbo, because they're value is in the toilet-the 996 has no Porsche soul for me. The series is just too sanitized, simply not curvy enough for my taste...and I HATE the headlight's anyway.

So, to" drive another 964 into the ground with salt etc " in your opinion, is a far worse fate than owner neglect or nice weather abuse? I simply don't agree. Quite honestly, a 964 C4 is not a "rare" car by any stretch of the imagination. There were after all, six production years-89-94, and there are lots of cars out there in every conceivable condition.

No one would have believed that my old Audi had 276K on the odo. Yea, I had an entire repaint done when it was almost 10 years old, but it was simply a beautiful car. Use all year round will make the underside ugly, and make stuff harder to get apart...that is for sure.

I'll let others preserve the marque, I intend to drive it like I stole most every day, and in the winter when the roads are snow covered ...I'll launch it from every stop, and drift it around every corner like I'm a rally driver. It gets my adrenelin going just typing about it.

Wasn't the old Porsche motto...Porsche, Driven...and not Porsche, Garaged?

DaveK

From your posts, I do think a 993 would be a better choice for you. You seem to much prefer those cars, and the 964C4 is only an option because of the (apparent) better 4WD.

However - neither car is going to cope particularly well in snow with summer tyres. As long as you use proper winter tyres, I'd expect the 993 to be perfectly good and I'd be surprised if you find situations where the 993 can't cope and the 964 would have.

dfinnegan

Does the 993 C4 have 4-Wheel Low?

Just curious.

race911

How often do you use it? I locked the diffs on mine a couple of times just to make sure the switch worked.

race911

Back to big picture? Anyone owned both generations? I liked the '92 C4 a lot. What I did NOT like was using it in horrible weather, e.g. ski duty. Defrost and heat sucked. Wipers sucked. Snow getting into the intake and having it hardly run sucked. But there was absolute confidence that the driveline would get me through the worst of the worst on I-80.

I've never subjected the C4S to similar because we sold our mountain getaway place. I suspect the driving experience would be the same, other than maybe the above-mentioned locking diffs that could extract you from being stuck.

As far as price, you're probably 50% more into a 993 C4 than a 964. In other words, a $20K 964 = $30K 993. Then add a bit for a widebody. He're a nice car a friend of mine has: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1581991684.html

dfinnegan

Once or twice in snow to pull out of a parking space.

Several times to get out of my driveway.

My car is kept in the barn at the bottom of the drive. It's not all that steep, but I've had a plow and a couple of 4WD trucks stuck down there when I first moved here. My Suburban included. The C4 drives straight up and out. Generally without the 4WD-Low enabled, but I like to exercise the mechanism so I enable it now and then. If it's icy I definitely enable it as I don't want to slip and bang into anything.

I've also used it on the road in a couple of inches of snow just to see how it went. It kicks out on its own when you reach ~20mph so it didn't remain enabled very long :-)

My question was more of a curiosity regarding the 993 and the differences between the two systems.

DWS964

Who do I make the check out to? I will go for $25,100.

(seriously jealous of your stable)

Magdaddy

the awd systems are radically different. As I understand it, the 964 has a fixed torque split of approx 32% front, 68% rear. The 993 normally sends only 5% to the front, but can theoretically send 100% to the front when slip is detected.

I've read lots of comparison's and comments from folks who have owned/driven both in winter. Hands down, the 964 is the better foul weather friend here.

The capability of the awd system is currently driving my interest. From a purely esthetic standpoint, I like the look of the 993 more, especially the C4S.

Race 911, I've seen your friends listing, it's the interior color that I'm not interested in there. The car should sell fast-condition/documentation, and especially price. He has it priced well below compariable other cars for sale at the moment.

Until, I begin to believe that the 993 awd system is an equal foul weather performer with the 964 awd system, I'm leaning toward the 964.

Thanks for all the banter/reply guys, I'm really enjoying it!

DWS964

... well, there are other good reasons, too.

Pictures taken this morning while "plowing out" the driveway with 6-8" of fresh snow. My first winter using winter tires (used all season in the past with the red C4,... another story) - wuhooo these tires are great.

OK, it has nothing to do with a C4, but the picture of Fozzie and Nick was just too darn cute.

Oracle

I don't want this to turn into a whiz contest. Read the official numbers from Porsche and you'll find the answer. But it's simple, almost 289 lbs of extra weight with the same engine.. do the math.


What I say is irrelevant because a 20 year old car is more about service history than anything else..

Magdaddy

your car is EXACTLY what I would be looking for, or making one into...Carrera wing, aero mirrors, clear corners, some kinda front valance/spoiler...and no obnoxious dark window tint. I could absolutely live happily with that ride!

Awesome pictures...and my 9 yr old daughter absolutely loves the Bichone Frie(sp)

thanks for putting those up!