raspberryroadster

thks, not sure this is a definitive argument you are providing (motorweek car show), but no purpose arguing...they are both great cars, my only point was if you do not need all weather performance c2 (personal drive) is better than a c4....

((BUT do you actually believe stock any carrera of this generation could do 0-60 in 4.5?? (well we all believed in toothfairy at 1 time or another).....and if it could i think i can safely say (have been there did it/done it on 1/4mi. in the cobra) that a car running those times would do far better in the 1/4 than mid 13's which is where c4 resides...it would be high 12`s)).

bottom line, no issue because none of the 964's today will perform as of these road tests...they will either be better (if rebuilt/built out & modified) or worse - if still stock, untouched & tolerances getting a little sloppy.

i appreciate your decision to buy a c4, and was not being critical of c4 in any way.....i was providing an opinion that c2 is better street car, and as an owner past & present of performance cars for plus 30yrs am entitled to that opinion. i drove both a c2 & c4 on the street......and up some twisty bits and to me the c2 was a better drive.

i had not intended to debate track times, nor do i think they have any relevance to your car or mine....or to this poster`s wise decision to swap into a 964...

so lets not trip up and get to far off topic.....
cheers

wellcraft290

Just pointing out the fact that the C4 is just as fast if not faster then the C2. Just using hard eveidence to dispute yoru claim. Your opinion yes is yrou opinion that the C2 drives better then a C4. Funny how the turbos since the90's have all been awd??

parsecnc4

IMHO there are many reasons for that and I am sure a GT2 or CGT would be good arguments against some of your observations. Don't get me wrong, I've owned AWD as well as 2WD sports cars. In real world driving, a 0.1-0.5 sec delta to 60MPH does not really matter much to an unskilled driver such as myself.

raspberryroadster

agree lets put an end to arguing about merits of the models and encourage the series.

after bmw`s (3) alfas (2 including while i was posted in tokyo a late model gta),
american muscle in a number of forms....have to admit am just wild about my 964
and every time i wash wax it, or we go for a drive......have a smile

99blackcoupe

Thanks for all the input I've just become obsessed with the 964 since I started researching them but I've never driven one and we rarely see them where I live. It's not that I don't like my Vette but the thrill is definately gone. I'm afraid that Porsche has poisoned my brain and nothing less will do. Now, I have to convince my wife, she thinks I'll end up regretting it and I'll constantly have the car in the shop getting fixed. I can't say as I blame her, I've owned a few lemons and lost my a** in repairs.
I plan on taking a drive to one of the Porsche dealers in PA to take one out and see if it feels as good as they look. Man, I really want one!

BlueHeeler

Compared to a C5, the 964 is a more dedicated sports/road race car. It is a big go kart.

The Corvette is more things in more ways. It can be a great autocrosser, boulevard cruiser, track car, drag car... Plus the V8 engine has more build potential per dollar. The big mod on a 964 is the $7.5K TPC supercharger offering 355rwhp. The same money on a C5 puts you well over 500rwhp approaching 600.

That said, I have never complained about the power output of the 964. The car is about driving, not melting rubber. Yes, a kid with a nitrous Camaro would demolish me in the stop light drag wars. That is not what the car is about. The 964 is about the experience of the driver, the car, the corners and the feeling of doing it quickly. The brakes are not bad either.

It is scalpel vs. hatchet.

All in IMHO, C5 was in my final 4 when buying the 964.

BlueHeeler

You wife may have a valid point, but it depends.

Are you willing to do your own basic maintenance, oil changes, brakes, replace broken window switches, or whatever minor will pop up? It is not a difficult car to work on, but you need to be willing to roll up your sleeves and trouble shoot at times. It is a 20 year old car and things break.

On the good side everything that could break has already broken on someone else’s car and there is probably a rennlist write up on how to fix it yourself. If not, post a thread, there is an immense amount of 964 knowledge on this fourm.

If you are going to the dealer for every fix, the 964 will drive you to the poor house. $2k per year maintenance is a realistic budget if you do the basics yourself.

I do not want to sugar coat ownership because I love it. Although it is a great car, it is NOT the car for everyone.

99blackcoupe

Ok, you got my attention Are you saying that even if I do my own oil changes, brake pads, etc., that I will still spend $2k per year on maintenance? If so, what exactly will that entail? My Vette, which isn't exactly a shining example of build quality, only costs a couple hundred a year. Granted I only drive about 2k miles per year but now you have me reconsidering my options. Thanks anyway, I think.

wellcraft290

I will say this if you do most on yoru own you are good. You will have the valve jobs every 15k miles, but that is like 1k to do. I think you only have big bills if things break.
My first year my dist belt and had the CV boot replaced and charged the ac and oil changed. I am like at 1k

Rocket Rob

Before you get all wound up about the maintenance cost, why not drive a few 964's first. Then decide if the purchase costs and maintenance are worth it. You may find that you like the Vette more or the 964 is not what you expected and you should look at other cars.

In my case, the 964 was the ideal car for me. After driving my C4 for 200K miles, I decided to buy a second 964. Two years later, I have no regrets.

Bottom line: Drive them first, then worry about the $$$.

BlueHeeler

There is no guarantee what you will spend, some people spend next to nothing per year others are not as lucky. This is why a PPI is so important. The big expense is if you need a rebuild you are looking at the north side of $10K. Fortunately it is generally a reliable engine. There is other maintenance like valve adjustments.

Other costs include consumables – tires, brakes, rotors, oil, filters…

Then there are broken things. I had a brake pressure sensor break earlier this year for a DIY cost of $250. Had it been the actual pump, the cost would have been closer to $2,000. There are other certain parts that are ridiculously expensive for no apparent reason. For instance ignition wire sets are ~$400.

It sounds like all doom and gloom, but there is light. If you look at total expenditure on any vehicle, what are the actual costs? Parts and depreciation. The 964 is not a big depreciator the way most cars are. If you buy one now, you will probably be able to sell it for about what you paid years from now. You pay the maintenance, but the car itself is effectively free to purchase. Of course the fact that you are driving (one of) the most iconic sports cars ever produced is a bonus. Life is too short not to.

elbeee964

-- similar rationale to a Rolex! (Not that I wear a Rolly, but still...)

Porscheholic

I went from a '99 Corvette that I bought new and drove for 10 years to a 1989 C4. Forget about what the performance numbers say. My 20 year old 964 is WAY more fun to drive, build quality far exceeds the Corvette, I never received comments on the Corvette, but inevitably wherever I take the 964 someone will come up and comment on how great the car looks (my point here is that the 964 has such classic lines that never get old). I wish I would have bought the '89 964 in 1999 instead of the new Corvette.

911URGE

My 89 C4 is up to 154K miles on a virgin motor (knock on my wooden head) with barely a drip and she runs just fine. Never had the cylinder gasket leak or repair. This car has no ratlles or creeks and feels a solid as a tank. I have no reservations jumping in the car at any time and driving 300+ miles and driving it is a blast.

Ive spent about $3-4k in repairs/maintenance over 3yrs for things like A/C, brakes, sunroof, oil lines, tires, misc parts and alignment. Ive done all work myself and only the A/C and alignment required a visit to a local shop.

Im getting a new windshield (its original and very pitted) and some minor paint work in the next few weeks. Other than that its a real joy to drive. My neighbor has a C6 and compliments mine all the time and Im always getting compliments on the car wherever I drive it.

Drive a few 964's and try a C2 vs C4. You will find the C4 feels heavier in steering over a C2 but I like the AWD feature even in SoCal where I may never really use its benefits.

Bearclaw

In 3.5 years of ownership, I'm averaging about $700/yr. - and I included consumables like tires, driveline and brake fluid changes, and oil changes with boutique oil. This biggest single item was an ignition switch (contacts) replacement.

The example you pick to buy will greatly influence your future maintenance & service outlay. A traceable service history and an overall impression that the thing has been well cared-for will go a long way towards having a pleasing ownership experience. If you buy one at a discount because of a checkered past, that pattern will usually continue and it will be a pain in your wallet. Or your perpetually greasy forearms. I do many things myself, and pay the shop to do things I'd rather not get into. Though I sometimes love the zen of turning a wrench, I bought the car to drive and enjoy, not to wrench on. I have a wife too (who is quite reasonable), but if the car spends too much time in the shop or in pieces in the garage, most of them will conclude that you made a bad decision. I don't need that kind of tarnish on my badge.

Get a PPI and be very discerning.