Air bags - yes or no?
08-02-2010, 11:14 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
It should not be hard to show if there is an improvement
and if it really is an improvement , lets try and get that system in all cars .
Re the clip , can you show an increased harm/injury/death coming from the use of the clips ?
If you increase seat belt wearing .1% by allowing the use of the clip ,
is that a good thing or not ?
08-04-2010, 08:11 AM
#32
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For decades, Mercedes investigated every fatal accident involving one of their cars. What they learned is real-world, and the foundation of our understanding of crash safety. Crash dummies and lab testing came later and added to that foundation.
There was uninformed opposition to the first seat belts. As laughable as it sounds now, the arguement was that it was best to be thrown from the car, and that seatbelts were therefore counter-productive. Your arguements are similarly uninformed. Economics is the only reason pre-tensioners are not universal. There is no question they are a significant safety benefit in severe collisions.
We need to agree to disagree at let this go.
There was uninformed opposition to the first seat belts. As laughable as it sounds now, the arguement was that it was best to be thrown from the car, and that seatbelts were therefore counter-productive. Your arguements are similarly uninformed. Economics is the only reason pre-tensioners are not universal. There is no question they are a significant safety benefit in severe collisions.
We need to agree to disagree at let this go.
08-04-2010, 01:53 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
So you know what it would cost ?
So you know the benefit vs cost ?
Show the data .
Show me that data that proves a pre tensioner system provides real benefits over a properly worn seat belt .
Inform me with facts not just statements .
08-04-2010, 03:03 PM
#34
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"argumentum ad verecundiam"
Three quotes from NHSTA (the higher authority):
Mercedes Pretensioners cost about $500 each (with belt). I know I replaced a rear seat belt in the C4 for $225. So about $275 more per belt?
And an interesting research paper on pretensioners (actually looking into their use in rotary wing aircraft, but alot of background info on their use in terrestrial bound craft, or cars.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA446485
(I love it when you get on a roll Indy!
)
Three quotes from NHSTA (the higher authority):
Frontal air bags typically are not designed to offer protection in rollover, side-impact, or rear-end crashes.
Frontal air bags do not eliminate the need for seat belts, but are a supplement to them.
Occupants who are unbelted or seated too close to the frontal air bag module when the air bag deploys can be seriously injured or killed.
Frontal air bags do not eliminate the need for seat belts, but are a supplement to them.
Occupants who are unbelted or seated too close to the frontal air bag module when the air bag deploys can be seriously injured or killed.
And an interesting research paper on pretensioners (actually looking into their use in rotary wing aircraft, but alot of background info on their use in terrestrial bound craft, or cars.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA446485
(I love it when you get on a roll Indy!
)
08-04-2010, 03:43 PM
#35
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From the paper:
Based on the research performed and the real world performance of pretensioners in the automotive environment, it is apparent that pretensioners have great potential to decrease the risk of injury to occupants in aircraft without introducing any significant potential for
injury as a result of the loads generated by the pretensioner itself.
Real world benefit at $275 extra seems a bargain relative to airbag cost.
Just don't get him going on starter fluid
Based on the research performed and the real world performance of pretensioners in the automotive environment, it is apparent that pretensioners have great potential to decrease the risk of injury to occupants in aircraft without introducing any significant potential for
injury as a result of the loads generated by the pretensioner itself.
Real world benefit at $275 extra seems a bargain relative to airbag cost.
Just don't get him going on starter fluid
08-05-2010, 02:14 PM
#38
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From an earlier post (just an opinion):
