Oil Leak Culprit?
10-29-2008, 03:14 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Oil Leak Culprit?
i now suspect my oil leak is mainly the cam carrier to head interface, or maybe the cam drive sprocket seal.... any body have pictures of these disassembled?
Is this a job that can be done with massive surgery? with the engine in, without anything expensive?
Colin, if you read this what is the approx cost to have this done? I may not have the time
Is this a job that can be done with massive surgery? with the engine in, without anything expensive?
Colin, if you read this what is the approx cost to have this done? I may not have the time
10-29-2008, 04:10 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
If it's the seal I think fits your description, Yes, it can be changed w/o engine removal.
Mine had such a leak when I bought it. Symptoms were tiny oil dots on the outside surface of the rear hood (and a line of oil 'fling' on its hood's underside, too? Or was that symptom on my '85?... damned, crappy memory! Anyway, tiny black dots, outside, on hood.)
(Nevermind -- that 'black dot' symptomology's going to be the devil to see on *your* paint... Sorry.)
I have pictures somewhere of that session while it was up on a lift.
Parts I remembered removed by my mechanic were (obviously) the chain covers and the cam-end sprockets, pieces of exhaust work, (all the belts?). From underneath, you could see the tail end wall of the engine bay reeeal easy-like. Stuff was *vacated*.
But the job got done with the engine in place.
Typical o-ring problem of taking a heat/age-hardened squared cross-section shape. I believe the new ones were green, like the oil pressure gauge sump's o-ring seal. Also, think the p/n is 999-707-313-40.
Edit--
I'll see if I can dredge up those up-on-the-rack, shop time photos. (Oct, Nov of '06)
Should provide insight.
Oh -- last thing -- these seals are apparently classic 3.6 fail points. Least, that's what the shop mgr. said. Not a 'blue moon' rarity. With age, it can slowly manifest itself. Definitely isn't a hard failure. Just an old age PITA.
The shop mgr. spotted it even as we were walking up to the car: See those? What? These. Little black oil dots. What dots? Here. And Here. And here. See? They're all over your hood. Isn't that just... ahhh... recirculation? Off the tail? Or tire bits? Nope. That's oil. This hood should be clean of oil. You've got a leaking seal... We'll know better where after we have a look...
I felt really, really dumb for having not seen the little tiny oil drops.
Mine had such a leak when I bought it. Symptoms were tiny oil dots on the outside surface of the rear hood (and a line of oil 'fling' on its hood's underside, too? Or was that symptom on my '85?... damned, crappy memory! Anyway, tiny black dots, outside, on hood.)
(Nevermind -- that 'black dot' symptomology's going to be the devil to see on *your* paint... Sorry.)I have pictures somewhere of that session while it was up on a lift.
Parts I remembered removed by my mechanic were (obviously) the chain covers and the cam-end sprockets, pieces of exhaust work, (all the belts?). From underneath, you could see the tail end wall of the engine bay reeeal easy-like. Stuff was *vacated*.
But the job got done with the engine in place.
Typical o-ring problem of taking a heat/age-hardened squared cross-section shape. I believe the new ones were green, like the oil pressure gauge sump's o-ring seal. Also, think the p/n is 999-707-313-40.
Edit--
I'll see if I can dredge up those up-on-the-rack, shop time photos. (Oct, Nov of '06)
Should provide insight.
Oh -- last thing -- these seals are apparently classic 3.6 fail points. Least, that's what the shop mgr. said. Not a 'blue moon' rarity. With age, it can slowly manifest itself. Definitely isn't a hard failure. Just an old age PITA.
The shop mgr. spotted it even as we were walking up to the car: See those? What? These. Little black oil dots. What dots? Here. And Here. And here. See? They're all over your hood. Isn't that just... ahhh... recirculation? Off the tail? Or tire bits? Nope. That's oil. This hood should be clean of oil. You've got a leaking seal... We'll know better where after we have a look...
I felt really, really dumb for having not seen the little tiny oil drops.
Last edited by elbeee964; 10-29-2008 at 06:31 PM.
10-29-2008, 05:49 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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exactly my symptoms....
i'm sure there are other places it leaks, apparently they can leak thru the rockers? newer cones with o rings are available if that makes any sense to anyone?
i'm sure there are other places it leaks, apparently they can leak thru the rockers? newer cones with o rings are available if that makes any sense to anyone?
10-29-2008, 11:32 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Ok, demon -- here's what a no-engine-drop camshaft end seal replacement looks like at mid stage. You'll get a good feel for the stuff that has to come off.
They apparently were either in mid disassembly, or were doing one cam/side at a time. But it'll give you an idea of the leak moistness on the chain cover still in place. The air/exhaust heat exchanger on the left side is bone dry these days.
Once these seals were replaced, all was (and still is!) dry.
Keep in mind that they were also doing a thorough 'remove and replace' for consumable parts at this time, as well. (spark plugs, fluids, etc.) I'd just got the car a week before, so was looking to get a good basis pt. to bring some of the unknowns into a 'known', good state. So, not everything you see removed may have been because of the cam end seals. (Though getting extra stuff out of the way during any job sure is golden!)
Good luck, sir:
I'm pretty sure the orange seals, here, were the leakers. The green ones were their replacements.
They apparently were either in mid disassembly, or were doing one cam/side at a time. But it'll give you an idea of the leak moistness on the chain cover still in place. The air/exhaust heat exchanger on the left side is bone dry these days.
Once these seals were replaced, all was (and still is!) dry.
Keep in mind that they were also doing a thorough 'remove and replace' for consumable parts at this time, as well. (spark plugs, fluids, etc.) I'd just got the car a week before, so was looking to get a good basis pt. to bring some of the unknowns into a 'known', good state. So, not everything you see removed may have been because of the cam end seals. (Though getting extra stuff out of the way during any job sure is golden!)
Good luck, sir:
I'm pretty sure the orange seals, here, were the leakers. The green ones were their replacements.
Last edited by elbeee964; 10-30-2008 at 02:40 AM.
10-30-2008, 09:45 AM
#5
Professor of Pending Projects
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Ok, demon -- here's what a no-engine-drop camshaft end seal replacement looks like at mid stage. You'll get a good feel for the stuff that has to come off.
They apparently were either in mid disassembly, or were doing one cam/side at a time. But it'll give you an idea of the leak moistness on the chain cover still in place. The air/exhaust heat exchanger on the left side is bone dry these days.
Once these seals were replaced, all was (and still is!) dry.
Keep in mind that they were also doing a thorough 'remove and replace' for consumable parts at this time, as well. (spark plugs, fluids, etc.) I'd just got the car a week before, so was looking to get a good basis pt. to bring some of the unknowns into a 'known', good state. So, not everything you see removed may have been because of the cam end seals. (Though getting extra stuff out of the way during any job sure is golden!)
Good luck, sir:
They apparently were either in mid disassembly, or were doing one cam/side at a time. But it'll give you an idea of the leak moistness on the chain cover still in place. The air/exhaust heat exchanger on the left side is bone dry these days.
Once these seals were replaced, all was (and still is!) dry.
Keep in mind that they were also doing a thorough 'remove and replace' for consumable parts at this time, as well. (spark plugs, fluids, etc.) I'd just got the car a week before, so was looking to get a good basis pt. to bring some of the unknowns into a 'known', good state. So, not everything you see removed may have been because of the cam end seals. (Though getting extra stuff out of the way during any job sure is golden!)
Good luck, sir:
Sure! That looks easy
No special tools required? What about timming? Any precautions to avoid messing anything? Thank you for the photos.
10-30-2008, 10:51 AM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Seems somewhat straightforward...
Bring everything to TDC before disassembly.
(That brings scribe marks at the ends of the the two cam shafts pointing up.)
Pressure from a chain tensioner (the springy thing you see outlined on tabletop, below) takes up chain slack.
(Chain tensioner pokes down from above on the left bank, pokes up from below on the right bank.)
Reassembly apparently is a loose affair. The sprocket/chain are slid on the cam shaft. A super-dooper chain preload factory tool is used to put juuuust the right chain tension on the assy.
Then take the sprocket shear pin and poke it through the hole that lines up, vernier-like.
Take off factory super-dooper tool, reassemble w/ springy-thing chain tensioner...
"reassemble in reverse order" [to disassembly]
Sure. Simple, as a Swiss watch.
Precautions? Messing up?
Brother -- if you have to ask....
(How the hell should I know, Jaime. I'm the ultimate ham-fist around here.)
Bring everything to TDC before disassembly.
(That brings scribe marks at the ends of the the two cam shafts pointing up.)
Pressure from a chain tensioner (the springy thing you see outlined on tabletop, below) takes up chain slack.
(Chain tensioner pokes down from above on the left bank, pokes up from below on the right bank.)
Reassembly apparently is a loose affair. The sprocket/chain are slid on the cam shaft. A super-dooper chain preload factory tool is used to put juuuust the right chain tension on the assy.
Then take the sprocket shear pin and poke it through the hole that lines up, vernier-like.
Take off factory super-dooper tool, reassemble w/ springy-thing chain tensioner...
"reassemble in reverse order" [to disassembly]
Sure. Simple, as a Swiss watch.
Precautions? Messing up?
Brother -- if you have to ask....
(How the hell should I know, Jaime. I'm the ultimate ham-fist around here.)
Last edited by elbeee964; 10-30-2008 at 01:18 PM.