CurBrwn79

Fellas-

New to the 964 world and hope you guys don’t mind offering a little advice on a potential car purchase. I love the timeless lines combined with modern conveniences of the 964 and have to have one!

I recently found a local 964 in Atlanta that has peaked my interest. It’s a GP white 91 Coupe with 150k on the clock. Clutch was replaced along with a new steering rack @ 120k. Owner states that the engine has never had a top end done and does not show any signs of significant wear; however, when asked how much oil is consumed, he answer 1 quart every 3-500 miles.

1.) Common sense tells me this is excessive?
2.) If this is deemed excessive oil consumption, is it safe to assume that a top end is imminent? I would rather not waste $300 on a ppi if this is an obvious indicator for a top end job.

Additionally, he mentioned that the car went in for a re-call in sept of 96: AT071908 T02 CAMPAIGN.

3.) Anyone know the specifics of this re-call code?


Thanks for the help in advance.

Best,

CB

doug751

That is a heck of a lot of oil. Is it leaking, burning or both?

My old 964 that had 75,000 miles on it used 1 quart per 2000 miles. My new one, with only 13,000 miles uses about 1 quart per 3,000 miles.

CurBrwn79

states that there are no leaks, which can be ruled out. so I guess he is burning. he claims there is no smoke.

here is the ebay link on the car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TQ:MOTORS:1123


No compression tests. After my reaction to the consumption, he seems to think it may be less frequent than he originally suspected. everyone makes mistakes.

still would like to find out about that re-call code.

The Stig

Mine consumes more oil than usual too. But that's partly down to the fact that I do a lot of short, stop-n-go driving during the week and the oil doesn't always get to the proper operating temp. Ask about the type of driving he does.

Nice 993 btw.

wsybert

To state 3-500 seems odd. Sure he did not mean 3500 or 3000-3500?
Then again I have seen a lot of odd things on eBay...
Heck, at 3 miles per qt you'd only get about 30 miles befor the engine would seize.

gfunk

When I bought mine a few years ago the engine passed the PPI with flying colors with good compression and leakdown. After I bought it I realized it was burning about 1 qt per 500 miles. No smoke. When my clutch went I had the top-end rebuilt. The valve guides were shot.

I would assume that car needs the valve guides replaced.

Greg

axl911

Mine consumed 1 qt every 400 miles when the valve guides were shot. Didn't leak, the oil were just burned. The only smoke I saw was when idling for more than a minute.

CurBrwn79

I guess the leak down will tell all if I decide to proceed. I am going to check the car out on thursday.

Based on the feedback, it is probably safe to assume that the guides are shot...maybe this will help me neg. the price down.

If the guides are shot, whats the worse thing that can happen if left alone for a little while? If throwin in a qt. of oil now and then?? Or something more expensive? A job on my 993 is around $4k. Is it same to assume I should budget for around the same for a 993?

Some of my old school porsche friends have told me its no big deal to have worn guides. In fact, the think that it add's more lubrication around the valves?? Thoughts?

anto1150

I have always thought 1litre/1.000km was normal.... isn't it true?

springer3

The car looks pretty clean. It paint looks way too good for 150,000 miles. Was there a re-spray, and if so, was there a collision? A quart per 300 to 500 miles is excessive. Can you continue to drive it? Pretty soon the plugs will start to foul or short out, and you will have to get the top end done. The dual plugs and electronic ignition system buy a lot of extra time, but not forever and you can have other ignition component failures if you continue to run with spark plug deposits.

Get a 4-wheel alignment shot as part of any ppi. That will show if any collision repair failed to get the frame back into alignment. I have a cherry C2 and live in Mid Town. I will be happy to give you a comparison car to see if that car rides and drives as it should.

Get that under tray reinstalled!

elbeee964

FWIW, my spidey sense ain't tingling on this one. (except for that oil issue. Still...)
Absent accident history, this appears a higher mileage, indulged car.

If PPI shows good & there's a fist full of receipts to back up history -- snag it. Downside is a top end.

...What's its nightly parking spot look like?

Geoffrey

wait, wait, wait, you aren't going to foul plugs with that amount of oil consumption. If it really hasn't had a top end rebuild ever in its life, then at 150k it is likely due for one. I've seen them at 120k not need them, but by 150k and the oil consumption it is likely that it might. If you continue to drive an engine with worn valve guides then the valve will begin to wear the seat unevenly and you will lose valve seat concentricity. This will result in leakage past the valves. A leakdown test will show you if you have good valve sealing and good ring sealing. On this car, I'd certainly start there. From the pictures the car looks very clean, however, I think 12-14k would be more in line pricewise.

wsybert

Duh, 300-500 (up late...). Still seems like a lot.

axl911

As far as I know, leakdown and compression test will not indicate valve guide wear. The best test I heard is to see if the car smokes at idle when fully warmed, or smokes on deceleration. Or with an experienced mechanics, open up the valve cover and wiggle the valves.

Bull

For years the Factory quoted a "within spec" range for the air-cooled cars, and the range was fairly wide. IIRC, the bottom of that range was the 1litre/1,000km, or 625 miles. "Normal" for a sound engine was further up that range.