74carreraturbo

I was browsing around the ads today and noticed quite a few 996's in the mid 20s... Doing a search of 89-93MY cars I noticed they were still holding strong in that 19-25K range depending on numerous factors. With the 996s falling fast, will this bring a drop in our cars or will it hold steady?? It's amazing that a car that is 6yrs newer will probably be under what ours are worth in a couple years if this trend continues!! Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated as I am not very good with the Porsche Market.


All i do know is that air cooled is the way to go

1990-964

Yeah it seems that the water pumpers value drops pretty precipitously. I do not think that the value of the 996 has any bearing on the 964 market. Our cars have nothing other that the numbers 911 in common with the 996. I think that they de-value so quickly for many reasons not the least of which is the fact that there are so many of them, it does not look like a 911, and that among the P Car community they are known to be of lesser quality and don't have the character or soul of an aircooled 911. Not to mention the spontaneous and catastrophic engine failures. I almost wonder if this situation may help the value of the 964 as prospective buyers find that they can get a "real 911" for the same money as a 996. This may make the velue of the 964 hold firm or increase and the value of the 996 fall even further. I am not a 996 hater by any means but it is not the first car I think of when daydreaming of 911s. In the used 911 market of cars more than 10 years old I thik the 993 will lead the way with the 964s right behind. Hell I even think the 996s may fall down past the 3.2 Carrera and into SC territory as far as prices go. Only time will tell.

springer3

For years the 964 was under-valued because of the "poor quality" reputation based on the DMF, oil leaks, and even the distributor belt. That plus the 3.2 and earlier crowd keeps harping on the double price for ignition tune-ups as a reason to prefer their cars.

Those of us that own 964s know performance is way above any earlier 911, and after you get past the DMF issue, put in the vent kit, and replace the distributor belt, reliability is equal or better than any earlier 911. Prices on 964s are holding steady or even rising because memories of the DMF are fading (are any original DMFs still in service?), and the reliability news gets out.

I don't think the 996 average values will fall below the 964 averages - too many years and too many miles separate the average car in the respective fleets. It will be interesting to see how individual cars in like condition with like mileage compare on resale price.

Chulo

I don't know the exact production numbers, but Porsche made a LOT of 996's. Also the 99's were not only ugly, but not very well made, and the motor was junk. The 02-on 996's were better, but still a high production vehicle. I think the 996's, especially the early ones are going to keep falling for a bit. One can buy a nice 996tt for high 40s, low 50s, and the tt's had the GOOD motor.

I think 964s have become a lot more popular, and will continue to do so. I suspect their value will be a little lower than 993s, since many view the 993s as the "last" air cooled 911, but that's a whole different thread.

Preeble

I have been keenly watching the falling prices on 996s. If they fall another $5000 or so, I'd seriously consider buying one to have a 'disposable' track car. When set-up properly, these cars do very well on the track.

I do think that in ~10 years, our 964s will be sought-after cars as the oldest ones will be approaching the 30-year old mark. On the other hand, I suspect that the 996s will be similar to the forgotten mid 1970's 911s.

Ritter v4.0

I re-run the numbers mentally every now and then.
Say $25k will get you pretty butt ugly base 996 with at least medium miles.
What do you have to spend on it to get it so its tolerable to look at and drive on the track?

Now do the same math on a 964 and even a 993. The money is similar IIRC. Now which end product would you rather own? A well sorted 993, 964 or 996?

A great deal on something you don't really want in the first place, is no deal.

When they (996s) are worth less than 993/964s (stay tuned) then the numbers will shift in their favor, but there's no getting around it; it'll still be a 996.

Now if this price momentum also affects 996 TT's and GT3s- thats a horse of a different colour!

joey bagadonuts

Oh no, Ben, please don't hold back.
Maybe not on the TT's, David, but I'm right there with you on the GT3.

What do the Brits like to say, chalk and cheese? Even the 993 offers a somewhat detached driving experience. I've had the pleasure of driving a GT3, 996 and various 986's at the track in anger and it's hardly a satisfying experience. Linear torque delivery must be the most overrated technical advance the auto industry ever conjured up and it robs any later p-car of much of its personality. Advanced sound-deadening, restrictive exhausts and gagged intakes would be the other culprits.

Chulo

Joe - is it obvious I am not a fan on the early 996s? I do think they will make a nice, disposable track car once they are cheap enough +-$20k. We can't rebuild our top ends for the cost of a new crate 3.4L.

I doubt 996 GT3s will ever proportionately get cheaper. They were enthusiast cars, with great motors, and better looking. Plus, at the rate they keep getting wrecked, the supply is shrinking (see post about "why do you guys to this" as to why)

TR6

Bingo. This is the reason the 996 (and the boxster) becomes an attractive track car (with some mods to solve the oil starvation issue). 964 and 993 engines are EXPENSIVE to rebuild. A 964 full engine rebuild is $12K to $16K (more if you hotrod it). If you are capable of doing the rebuild yourself, that is one thing, but these engines are not easy to rebuild and the price of failure is very expensive.

Chulo

All of that said, unless you money shift, they are really strong motors, and hard to damage. I'm staying in the 964 club for a while.

Ritter v4.0

This is not a put down of the 996/986 but if I wanted a cheap track car I'd get a Miata.
I'm not thrilled about the high cost of a 964 motor rebuild but the 964/993 reward on the track like few others.
For me its just the price of admission which gets amortized over each and every event. And hopefully a few years.
If (when?) I change it will be for a GT3- nothing less.

Chulo

Me, too.... Or a cup.

TR6

I don't disagree that 964 engines are generally strong, but not indestructable. Mine spun a rod bearing last year. That's how I know you can exceed $16K on a rebuild...

Ritter v4.0

Oh ya. I just rebuilt to 3.8 spec. The memory is fresh.

joey bagadonuts

Greg,

Did you ever isolate a cause for this break down? i.e. Loss of oil pressure due to ________. Was that $16K for top and bottom? Glad you're back in action after such a lengthy absence.

Sorry to be off topic but I thought this might be of interest to others, as well.