I need a little help form the forum if possible in valuing my car, and the best configuration to sell it. (I hope the perennial C2 versus RSA discussion can be left out, I am neutral in that discussion)

I read with real interest the thread (RonCT) created on his purchase decision thought process, and he is going through the exact decision matrix I went through. (I think he may have found his car from another Rennlister).

Like most car sellers, I am trying to maximize my dollars while reaching the broadest audience. Base car description is below:

1993 RS America, 75K miles, LSD and AC are the only options. Color is Polar Silver.

Like RonCT, I started down the slippery slope of DE in one car, then moved to the RSA, had a great time for two years, and then stepped into racing (for the second time that is, I used to race motorcycles back when I was a bit younger and lighter;-)

Ran three races (Novice) in the RSA and had my epiphany (like so many before me). Too much value in the car and too much money to bring it up the class spec to be competitive at the regional level. Plus, it is a licensed street car, which seems to be its highest and best use.

Pics of the car can be found in this link: Post # 56 https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=349457&page=4

So the question is, do I return it to stock (I have all the parts save the tail) and ask less, then sell the speed parts separate? Or do I wait for a guy like RonCT who may be interested in its current config. Rons dilemma here: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ght=RS+America


Any help would be appreciated.

RP

 

I'm confused. Which car in post #56 are you referring to? The one parked next to the white trailer looks stock. The one with numbers has a cage. Or are those before and after shots of the same car?

 

IMHO it depends (believe it or not) on the paintwork.
Did its track days scar up the front end?
If so, bringing it back into the 'stock' arena is going to make you a lesser valued (returned-to-stock) RSA.

However, if it's still nice, then I'd venture you'd instead have a Much broader buyer's group, than the subset of RSA buyers who also wanna race.
(Absent the manual steering, a C2 can become the track equivalent of an RSA for a lot less than their stock $20k differential.)

The one BIG irreducible is that there's a price patina your car's S/N will forever hold over my C2; stock or not.
The bigger customer base would argue a stock reconversion (if the paint's presentable.)

Oh -- and needless to say -- that's a nice RSA!
Best of luck with your decision wrestlin'.
-Lonnie

 

Sorry about the confusion, mine is the car with the cage, Morgan, another Rennlister, took the photos, and the stock car (which is el supremo) is his.

Yes, I have the typical track rash on the front and the mirrors, if I choose to put it back to stock, then a nose spray will be in order.

Thanks so far guys.

RP

 

I would agree that the highest and best use is as a street car ... all other things being equal. Biggest pool of potential buyers.

But a car with a welded in cage is not easy to take back to "street". I suppose it can be done, although I've never seen it done. Most DE drivers aren't real interested in a cage. So as a track car it probably has it's most value as a race car. But then you need to address the above statement in order to maximize the value of the car. I'm not sure what class spec/regional level you are referring to ... but a racer is going to take into consideration whatever expenses are needed.

If the cage is bolted in and not welded, I would probably say converting it all back to street (and selling off all the racing bits and pieces) is your best bet.

Good luck.

 

I'm a little father behind you in my driving evolution, but I've already been having the same thoughts about my RSA. I DE my RSA but it is 100% street legal with no roll bar/cage. I've already been thinking that probably in another year if I continue down the path of progressing on the track and especially if I opt to try club racing, I'll retire the RSA to a weekend street car before I start hacking it up or tearing it up. Instead, I'll buy something cheaper (and probably less powerful) for the track. Like a NA 944.

My opinion is that if your RSA is already prepped and legal for racing, sell it that way as an already prepped race car. There is a significant value to those preparations for a club racer (everyone always says its cheaper to buy a race car that is already done rather than build one). But if it isn't fully race prepped (race suspension already setup, full cage, safety equipment, etc), then maybe you are better off going back to street to sell it.

 

If I were going to sell it, I'd try and sell as is. If you don't find a buyer then you can make a decision about what to do with car. Keep in mind that a race prepped RSA is worth 40-50K, probably about same as a "street" car. The value of the parts depends what on the car, labor might be as much or higher than value of parts. There are plenty of people that want a DE cars.
Phil

 

RP,

When it comes to race car buyers, I think you may have a broader audience if you ensure that the car meets stock or prepared class requirements for PCA Club Racing. http://www.pca.org/clubrace/ Also, for a car with 75K miles, it might make sense for you to have a PPI performed so that you can provide recent compression and leakdown numbers to potential buyers.

That's a "hot" car in PCA Club Racing and could very easily go for $40-$50K, as Phil suggested. Being a non-sunroof car is also a big plus. I think if you reviews the rules and understand what PCA shoppers are looking for, you'll have a better idea of whether a street conversion makes sense.

$0.02

 

Some data for you:

Street RSA value (in my experience...having sold one) with 75k miles and good compression / leak down (as Joey rightly pointed out) is between $29 - $34k. Assuming the paint etc is good. People asking for higher are dreaming. I know because it actually took me some time to find a buyer for mine and it was a nice car with same mileage. Are we talking about the car that has "Black Widow Racing" on it? I see it has a cage. Is it bolt in you can always remove it but if it is weld in then you might be better off to sell as a prepped PCA race car. Again, as Joey said, you want to make it legal. Too many guys mod their DE cars with illegal stuff and then the race guys have to do a bunch of work to get them back to stock. A good example is someone who puts a MAF kit on or is running different cams. The other bunch of buyers (not the racers) will always ask you if the car is streetable. Is yours streetable? Many people don't like to be in a car with a cage if they are not wearing a helmet.

On the other hand, a good G class race car (RSA with a/c removed) that has good results could fetch around the $38-$41k mark. A car prepped for H class (shortened gears, top of the line suspension, etc.) could get up to $50k. Again, this is my opnion based upon being in the market recently both as a buyer and a seller.

 

Larry Herman's RSA is in the classifieds for 55. 75 w/ spares.

 

Thought I would throw up a list of bits that are on the car and see if everyone would like to take a stab a total cost to upgrade with the following list. I am pulling together all of my invoices (which is a slow, painful process) but I might agree that the DE route is the best way to sell the car. I stopped adding at 10K in upgrades, at which point I passed my (presumed) asking dollar of with all of the spares.

The cage is a bolt-in Autopower, and the interior is intact as from the factory (except the radio delete, someone added a Pioneer or something back in the day).

PCA does not hold many races here in the PNW, thus, I have never classed the car with them. Anyone want to take a stab at what class this car would run in since the engine is basically stock except for the chip, exhaust and flywheel?
I tried to read the PCA rules and, well, snoozed a bit.

Here is the list, what do you think the parts cost would be (let us assume labor is free). Thanks again for your input.

RP (BTW, how do I post in the classifieds?)

Chassis/Brakes/suspension

JRZ double adjust front
JRZ single adjust rear
Camber plates front
Strut Brace
Roll bar front
Roll Bar rear
Solid Bushing kit
Spherical bearing rear arms
Camber adjust rear arms


Brakes
SS Brake lines
Big Red front
Stock rear

Engine

LWF (Porsche RSR)
Chip
BB SS exhaust w cat bypass
BB Dual outlet SS muffler

Interior

Recaro Seats
Autopower full cage
Simpson G force camlock belts
Dead pedal
Heal toe gas pedal adaptor
Momo wheel

Body

Air duct intake front bumper
RSR air splitter wings
3.8 RSR rear wing


Maint. items

Dual ignition coil belt replaced
Cam seals replaced
Valve covers replace
Valve adjust complete
3rd and 4th sycnros replaced
Diff clutches new
Axels new
Wheel bearings new all around
New master cylinder
New clutch slave cylinder
Caliper rebuild complete

 

Has the engine or trans been rebuilt? If not, I'd say you are looking at 43 +/- 3k depending on how nice the interior & exterior are..

 

You cannot list in the classifieds unless you are a supporting member. I think that only costs something like $18 for a year, so well worth joining up.

Having poked at a dozen RSAs with about half modified like yours and half bone stock, I can say there's not much difference in price with the modifications. I've seen several cars like yours go for $39-42k in excellent conditions with good PPI / Leak Down. I've also seen several bone stock cars in excellent condition go for similar numbers. There is clearly a division between RSA fans - half appear to want a DE / race car and half want a cool street car. It's a real pain to remove all the track stuff and then try to sell it off at 25-50 cents on the dollar so most (if not all) RSA DE / Race cars typically give away most of the parts and pieces (because the cost to remove it all ends up being about the value you can sell the parts for and then there's the huge time and aggravation factor). There are some cars, like Larry's that are perfectly sorted and have exactly what one needs to be a competitive racer, so that's in a separate category that will cost a bit more.

Should you be able to get a little more for the parts? I think so. I've seen 2 stock RSAs in the same mile range without sunroof go for $35k recently, where ones with $20k of mods went for $40k. So there's a little that people got back.

As to the premium for non-sunroof - it's not that big and only really critical for somebody that's well over 6' tall. I'm 6' and fit in a sunroof car just fine with a helmet and Recaro shells. The cost to remove a sunroof done correctly (restoration quality) is about $3k. So for somebody that really has to have no sunroof (40 lbs saved), the premium on a non-sunroof car is about $3k in parts and labor.

 

I bought a well sorted 33k LSD only RSA in September with track suspension, brakes, all safety gear, and secondary bypass with a nice trailer for $49. It had everything I was looking for and nothing more. The car has nice paint and the 3M film on the front areas of the car. I am currently enjoying my black girlfriend for DE/track experience to get into Club Racing. Mine is streetable, but will knock out your fillings on a long road trip. Plus, we'll see how much I enjoy a black car with no AC down here in the South this July and August.

Like RonCT, I looked at buying stock and modifying the car. That was going to put me well into the 50's. Unless you can go all the way back to stock RSA like it was born, you will be wasting your time and effort putting the car back.

I also looked at several modified cars and decided that with enough research I would find the right car already prepared. I think you should have sucess selling your car as a streetable track car because there are plenty of people looking for a DE/track car, and the RSA is always a qualified candidate. Plus, it is fun to take out around town on a nice Saturday.

Having looked for almost 2 years for the right car, I suggest posting your car here on Rennlist, the PCA Mart, and on RSAmerica.net in the 42 range. If you are in a hurry and willing to give up some money, go the ebay route, and it will be gone in 10 days, but I would guess for about 32.5.

Good luck with it.

Tucker