Vitesse MAF kit - Dyno results, before and after
12-31-2007, 10:07 AM
#77
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Paul,
I am curious about my reply below , and the questions I asked are they not valid and correct. As a Blank, and Sample ?
I am not asking to argue , just I think that it is a valid point that is getting lost .
And as I said before lets write a SOP and run the test with a better control.
I am curious about my reply below , and the questions I asked are they not valid and correct. As a Blank, and Sample ?
I am not asking to argue , just I think that it is a valid point that is getting lost .
And as I said before lets write a SOP and run the test with a better control.
Springer3,
You can still run you car on that dyno as a reference.
I still think that it does show that with AFM is the "blank" and with MAF is the "sample "
So the numbers are valid, even if the O2 sensor was or was not working
Now remember this is time consuming ,and the drive for me to the dyno is 45 mins one way .
Changing a part on a dyno is difficult at best,but I am willing to learn more.
So I believe that there is a gain from the data I see on the dyno, I did not change the cat so that remains the Control.
If there is so much disbelief , then maybe we should write a testing procedure that we all agree removes the mistakes as best we can within reason. The run the test.
I fear that we may never be able to get everyone to agree on a SOP though.
You can still run you car on that dyno as a reference.
I still think that it does show that with AFM is the "blank" and with MAF is the "sample "
So the numbers are valid, even if the O2 sensor was or was not working
Now remember this is time consuming ,and the drive for me to the dyno is 45 mins one way .
Changing a part on a dyno is difficult at best,but I am willing to learn more.
So I believe that there is a gain from the data I see on the dyno, I did not change the cat so that remains the Control.
If there is so much disbelief , then maybe we should write a testing procedure that we all agree removes the mistakes as best we can within reason. The run the test.
I fear that we may never be able to get everyone to agree on a SOP though.
12-31-2007, 10:18 AM
#78
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Stock engine
Stock heat exchangers
Stock exhaust or cat bypass & primary bypass
Test Car #1 (all runs to be done on same day)
Dyno car with stock chip
Dyno car with Steve Wong or other popular chip
Dyno car with MAF kit
This test will prove the MAF kit
Optional Test
Car #2 Description
Modified engine with larger injectors...other mods can also exist (cams, 3.8L, etc)
Test Car #2
Dyno car with current setup (I assume a modified engine would already have a chip of some sort)
Dyno car with MAF kit (programming should be tuned for this modified car)
This test will prove the MAF kit is better at handling modified engines
12-31-2007, 10:24 AM
#79
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HEAR HEAR!!!!!!
WTF happened to the dyno day?
....................
The road test proved that there is not a lot of difference in power output of the 2 cars - how much we do not know - and how much the MAF has benefited Dereks car we also do not know......WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE BEEN READING THIS THREAD. As I have said before, I don't think anyone would spend $500 let alone $1500 for a 5HP gain....so why not get this over with? Just put some numbers out there.
In a road test, I can promise you that my car for example would be substantially quicker, and Springer would notice that just driving my car himself. I have seen my car's dyno curves compared to stock GT3's and other models stored on the same dyno, which although unnecessary at my state of tune is nice to have.
Get with the programme dude - I know Loren's tone sucks (as I am usre mine does now) but you have to realise that people need to see some benefit in buying your product. Maybe Derek bought it to get better fuel consumption, but I think that most of your potential clients won't so please see if we can get the dyno session set up so that we don't have to read this boring and inane rant any longer.
WTF happened to the dyno day?
....................
The road test proved that there is not a lot of difference in power output of the 2 cars - how much we do not know - and how much the MAF has benefited Dereks car we also do not know......WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE BEEN READING THIS THREAD. As I have said before, I don't think anyone would spend $500 let alone $1500 for a 5HP gain....so why not get this over with? Just put some numbers out there.
In a road test, I can promise you that my car for example would be substantially quicker, and Springer would notice that just driving my car himself. I have seen my car's dyno curves compared to stock GT3's and other models stored on the same dyno, which although unnecessary at my state of tune is nice to have.
Get with the programme dude - I know Loren's tone sucks (as I am usre mine does now) but you have to realise that people need to see some benefit in buying your product. Maybe Derek bought it to get better fuel consumption, but I think that most of your potential clients won't so please see if we can get the dyno session set up so that we don't have to read this boring and inane rant any longer.
Dyno day took place. This is where the Dyno Chart posted in the first message came from.
If you rather calculate HP based on a drag race where there are many variables (weight, gear ratio/tire size, claimed stock setup)... It is up to you to go with lots of unknown variables or a measured test.
However, if you decide to get with the programme dude, take a look at a the dyno chart above I don't see how you come to the 5hp conclusion. How about 19rwhp with a healthy gain in HP and TQ across the RPM.
Thank you for your input.
Last edited by fast951; 12-31-2007 at 10:46 AM.
12-31-2007, 10:26 AM
#80
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John, thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.
Point taken and I know that you have a good track record with 951s. Please try to get another MAF'd 964 on the dyan ASAP to help support the numbers from the first beta car. This would go a long way to help convince the doubters.
Does your MAF/chip combo run richer or leaner than stock @ WOT? How does your MAF set-up deal with baro changes (air temp, density and importantly, altitude)?
I will require a 91oct tune so I hope you get to that soon
Keep up the good work
Point taken and I know that you have a good track record with 951s. Please try to get another MAF'd 964 on the dyan ASAP to help support the numbers from the first beta car. This would go a long way to help convince the doubters.
Does your MAF/chip combo run richer or leaner than stock @ WOT? How does your MAF set-up deal with baro changes (air temp, density and importantly, altitude)?
I will require a 91oct tune so I hope you get to that soon
Keep up the good work
I'm sure more dyno results will come in. 91 Octane is already out there, just no dyno results from it yet.
12-31-2007, 10:27 AM
#81
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Paul, all f the variables I mentioned in my early thread were things you said. Now you twist things around again. You introduce way too many contradictions. You have proven NOTHING!
Variable/unknown #1 = Gearing
So Derek stopped at 6000-6100rpm, and you stated you went to redline (6400+).. If both of you started the at the same speed and the same RPM (I doubt it) and stopped at the same time (neither passed = same speed). Where does the 400+rpm difference come from. Do I hear a gearing difference (which I stated). For a smart guy that you claim to be, you should know that gearing is free HP.
Variable/Unknown #2 = Stock vs. non stock setup.
Paul, what is it about your car pinging in hot weather and needing to run 100 octane? Were you running different octane during the race? Different chip? How am I to verify what you had during the run, I wasn't there. To ask me to verify something after the fact is useless, things can be swapped. I offered you a test to run the same stock DME/chip as Derek, use the same fuel on the same dyno. This would have pointed out the difference in the "stock" performance and gearing. Of course you came up with a story not to do it.
Variable/unknown #3 = Weight
Ok so you swapped cars and you pulled a bit away from Derek (driving your car). That tells me weight was a big factor. Again for a a smart guy like you, you should know that weight is a huge factor. How much fuel did you have in your tank? Fuel is heavy, isn't it.
Paul, if attention is what you are after, well people that don't know any better will fall for it and agree with you. The bottom line your test was USELESS! If anything it tells us that unless the variables are well known and under control, any test is a waste of time.
Controlling variables, and showing a before and after on the DYNO is what I did. 23hp gain from a bolton mod.
This is going nowhere. It's in BLUE and RED, read the dyno and see the results.
Variable/unknown #1 = Gearing
So Derek stopped at 6000-6100rpm, and you stated you went to redline (6400+).. If both of you started the at the same speed and the same RPM (I doubt it) and stopped at the same time (neither passed = same speed). Where does the 400+rpm difference come from. Do I hear a gearing difference (which I stated). For a smart guy that you claim to be, you should know that gearing is free HP.
Variable/Unknown #2 = Stock vs. non stock setup.
Paul, what is it about your car pinging in hot weather and needing to run 100 octane? Were you running different octane during the race? Different chip? How am I to verify what you had during the run, I wasn't there. To ask me to verify something after the fact is useless, things can be swapped. I offered you a test to run the same stock DME/chip as Derek, use the same fuel on the same dyno. This would have pointed out the difference in the "stock" performance and gearing. Of course you came up with a story not to do it.
Variable/unknown #3 = Weight
Ok so you swapped cars and you pulled a bit away from Derek (driving your car). That tells me weight was a big factor. Again for a a smart guy like you, you should know that weight is a huge factor. How much fuel did you have in your tank? Fuel is heavy, isn't it.
Paul, if attention is what you are after, well people that don't know any better will fall for it and agree with you. The bottom line your test was USELESS! If anything it tells us that unless the variables are well known and under control, any test is a waste of time.
Controlling variables, and showing a before and after on the DYNO is what I did. 23hp gain from a bolton mod.
This is going nowhere. It's in BLUE and RED, read the dyno and see the results.
Last edited by fast951; 12-31-2007 at 10:45 AM.
12-31-2007, 10:36 AM
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I get the feeling there a few on this board that have nothing better to do than to attack others. They can't do it so they must attack others when they succeed. At least they can hide behind the keyboard and play hero, they must have a reason to exist.
We took the time and spent the money to show the before and after. Yet, some still refuse to accept the FACTS and claim it's not real. There is nothing else that can be done, for them the Earth will always be flat!!
Most of you already examined the dyno chart, and you have the data in front of you. Hope you find it useful! If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
This thread has gone down hill, it's time to shut it down.
The brain is like a parachute, it works best when it's open.
We took the time and spent the money to show the before and after. Yet, some still refuse to accept the FACTS and claim it's not real. There is nothing else that can be done, for them the Earth will always be flat!!
Most of you already examined the dyno chart, and you have the data in front of you. Hope you find it useful! If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
This thread has gone down hill, it's time to shut it down.
The brain is like a parachute, it works best when it's open.
