ssarchi

Since the slope is slippery and many wind up at the bottom of the ditch, I would like to know what are the most common mods that owners perform on the 90-94 964's.

Suspension
Motor
Wheels
Exhaust
Chip
?

What should be budgeted for these mods?

thanks!

N51

Suspension: Bilstein and green springs. Have them custom valved to your 964.

Motor: Leave at is.

Wheels: Leave at is.

Exhaust: Leave at is.

Chip: Forget about it.

Most performance for the dollar(and it's falling fast): RS clutch/flywheel + Jason's chip

Noah

Marc Shaw

Mods for looks or performance?

Looks:
aero mirrors
clear corners
lowering
18" rims
wing? splitter?

Marc

Ritter v4.0

JICs + cf shift ****.

stevepaa

reverse wiper stop position zero

rig up rear fog lights $40, add relay for daytime running lights $20


add headlight washers $1000, because you need a new bumper cover

ssarchi

Pretty clear from the above that performance mods are not too popular or available?

joey bagadonuts

It depends who you ask. Some enthusiasts want a bone stock car (after all, these are air-cooled classics) and might even replace worn shocks, for example, with Factory replacements. Many enjoy heightening the driving experience by installing nice aftermarket springs & shocks and, perhaps, bypassing one of the two mufflers. And some simply want to personalize their cars by changing wheels and interior pieces.

And then there are track enthusiasts, like myself, who use headers, paired with an aftermarket chip and cone intake, replace the ring & pinion, steel syncros, lsd, lightweight flywheel, use Big Red brakes, run on lightweight wheels, install CROSS coilovers with camber plates, TRG adjustable sway bars, have a short shifter, Momo wheel, Recaro buckets, Autopower cage, Schroth harnesses, WEVO motor mounts, Ruf splitter, MA Shaw 3.8 RS wing and aero mirrors (standard on 92-on cars).

Oh, there's no shortage of options but if you're trying to get a handle on the cost of ownership + upgrades, you really need to decide what you plan to do with the car. The answer could range from $5k - $25k on top of the purchase price. And unless you've got a fully-equipped garage, the maintenance on these cars can be pricey, i.e. $1,500 minimum for a 15k service/valve adjustment performed by a Porsche specialist.

TR6

I'm going to go on the assumption that you are a performance enthusiast that plans to track it once in a while (DE's). I'm not going to talk about cosmetic mods. I'll leave those topics to the show-and-shine crowd.


Suspension would be my number one priority if I did only one mod. Bilstein shocks and H&R Springs. Don't waste time on the green springs. Go with H&R Reds. Anything less is too soft.

Exhaust - Primary exhaust bypass (cup pipe) or secondary exhaust bypass (G pipe, J pipe), but not both. Most seem to agree that the cup pipe (primary bypass) is probably a little more efficient in terms of adding a few horsepower. But neither is going to add enough power to really detect in real world acceleration. But the sound improvement will make the car feel so much faster. And either will reduce weight slightly. A cup pipe can be had for about $240 and is an easy install. A G pipe is perhaps about $200 or so. Again, easy install.

Headers are another option, but they ain't cheap, as they say. $1200 for basic headers and $2500 for the fancy ones with heat exchangers so you can still have heat.

Then there are aftermarket sport mufflers such as Dansk, Fabspeed, and B&B. They are usually expensive also. Personally, I don't think they are worth the coin and don't add any more power than the simple bypasses listed above. They are just prettier. But, do your own research here. Lots of previous posts on the topic.

Cat bypass. If you want a little louder exhaust sound and a few more horsepower, it is a good mod if combined with a primary or secondary bypass. Again, the difference in seat of the pants acceleration is probably not measureable, but the car will sound so much faster. Cumulatively, you are talking about adding maybe 7 horsepower here, another 5 there, etc. High quality cat bypasses aren't cheap (approx $500). Check around with the suppliers like EBS.

Open airbox or drilled airbox or cone air filter - Lots of debate on this mod. Definitely adds a little more stereophonic surround sound factor. Some love it. Some don't. Does it add more power? My own dyno test showed it added only a couple of horsepower. Certainly not enough to feel. I say do this one if you like the sound.

Chip - Oh boy, lots of heated debate on this one. Get a cup of coffee, do a search and prepare to spend some time reading some spirited posts. I personally found that the 911chips (Steve Wong) chip added some horsepower on my dyno test. Again, you have to keep in mind that you won't feel a huge surge of power difference between the stock chip and Steve Wong chip. And not all chips are created equal. One I tested (Autothority) actually lost a few horsepower compared to stock.

Brakes - you can sink a fortune in brakes without trying very hard, especially if you start talking about Big Reds and such. But, my personal advice here is to learn to drive the car fast and work on your braking technique before considering expensive brake upgrades. And they are a waste of money if you don't track anyway. The reality is that the OEM 964 brakes are extremely capable on the track even for club racing with just changing to some aggressive track pads and the right kind of fluid. A Big Red upgrade will set you back $2500 or so. That money is much better spent learning to drive the car fast on the track. So, spend some money flushing the brakes regularly with a high quality brake fluid such as ATE, Motul, or even SRF. Chose a set of pads that fits your needs (PFC, Pagid, etc, or even just OEM) depending on whether you drive on the track or street or both.

Lightweight Flywheel/RS Clutch - LWF and RS Clutch is a popular performance upgrade, although its not cheap. Most people wait until they have the excuse of needing a new clutch to justify the expense. I did this in my car and the cost of the parts was about $1400 not counting installation. The LWF comes with its own set of pros and cons and there are lots of threads on this. Biggest con is that many people experience stalling issues after this installation (including me). Biggest pro is that the engine revs much more easily which helps with heel/toe rev matching, etc. Great for a DE/track car.

Hope this helps. These are my opinions only. I'm sure others may agree or disagree...

ssarchi

TR6/Joey/Steve/Ritter- thanks for taking the time to put this in writing

Really, the entire list is really modest compared to what I am seeing on otther later models.....

Two details from the RSA that are considered useful are the limited slip (do C2's come with this?) and
the particular form of rack and pinion steering- anyone ever do these mods?

SS

TR6

Yes, the LSD was an option for the C2 also. Not just RSA's.

Regarding the manual steering rack that RSA's had, some people retrofit them to C2's although I've heard they are hard to find.

BTW, I realized I'd left off the LWF so I went back and edited my list.

joey bagadonuts

You're welcome.

So what are people doing to the later cars that didn't appear on any of the lists above? There might be an equivalent 964 option available which, for whatever reason, didn't make it as a favorite mod. And maybe there's good reason for it.

N51

Indeed.

I abreviated my list, assuming you, ssarchi, new to the 964. Others have given lengthy and well thought out advice. What do you want to hear? :-)
I'm almost embarrassed to express in dollars what I've done and am doing.

jlr

I love the mods to my RSA, which include (in order of importance):

1) Paul Guard Limited Slip;

2) Bilstein PSS9;

3) Chip; and,

4) Fabspeed Exhaust.

I have been thinking about LWF and big reds, probably next on my list, if I don't buy that darned RUF I saw.

Christer

Just one note on the comments made. Suspension upgrades are not all equal as you will find out when you search and read (for days) the pros and cons. For me, I have been very happy with the H&R coilovers that I have fitted and these would *seem* to have a higher spring rate than some of the 'separate' systems that people talk about. Additionally, I have RS swaybars fitted which definitely stiffen the car up even more. PSS9 and the like have a highly adjustable element to them and I guess you would only use those on a highyl track-focused car. In my case, as the car runs almost exclusively on the street (as if it were on the track) I think H&R coilovers with RS bars are about as stiff as you want. On the track though, these are too soft - so there is always a compromise.

My view on modding is that you should always think about what you want before starting otherwise you can waste a lot of money (sounds obvious I know - but people will sometimes let their wallet rule which may not be the best way to get what you want). The other thing is that personally I have tried to only make mods that you can really *feel*. so for eample, a chip that costs USD400 and adds maybe 15hp to me is not worth it. You can't really feel 15hp, and to me the money is wasted (of course on the track that .1 of a second each lap is maybe worth it). Having modded my car more than most people I have heard of, I have made some mistakes - and these have been shared here along with succeses of course. So to sum up - if you are going to do something do it properly (and have the appropriate budget). Don't go halfway - you will probably regret it. Have fune with it, and share info here - I think we have all benefited from each others expereinces and it is one of the things that for me sets Rennlist apart from other enthusiast boards.

Look forward of hearing of your experiences.

joey bagadonuts

Group hug?
Nice, thoughtful comments.