Bill Wagner

I'm getting ready to do an oil change. I read a post on the e-mail list some time ago about the new "SM" rated oils and how they can damage some cars (especially those with older engines)

Here are some links:

From PCA web site:
http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={9D191B0C-7B9C-4EA9-B93C-EAA81F9F6E3B}

From some Chevy list I found doing a google search:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/166639/

LN Engineering's site:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

I find the lengthy 3rd post from the Chevy site pretty detailed....and disturbing.

Does anyone know if Porsche has made any official comments on this with respect to our air cooled cars?

I was hunting for something that I could use in my car and I think I may have found one (and only one) at WallMart of all places. It's Shell synthetic Rotella 5W-40 that's CI-4/SL rated.

Comments anyone????

Bill Wagner

Vlocity

Hi Bill:

You are right that these are very genuine concerns. I found it ironic that the first article mentioned in your link was a Model A Ford......I have one of those and it's been in the family for almost 51 years.

I have been using the 10-40 Amsoil in my 964 for the last 5 years with an annual oil change. I'm running the 20-50 Racing Oil in my supercharged 928 "track car", unlike the 20-50 Red Line there is no street driving restriction on the Amsoil product.

There are a number of the racers in our area using the Shell Rotella and I think that's a good choice as well. The zinc content is a little higher in the Amsoil and we're seeing that used successfuly in the older air cooled motorcycles, which have the same problem as our air cooled engines.

Regards,

Ken

mpeters951

FWIW; I'm a dedicated user of Amsoil and have been using their 5w-40 Euro synthetic in my '90 C2 that does see a number of annual DE gigs. After reading the posted links I put a call into Amsoil's tech support. First off I was impressed that they were all over the issue and had immediate and detailed responses to my concern(s).

The Amsoil position is that, in their product line, 20 and 30 weight oils are the only products that have been reformulated to alter those oils' anti-wear package. They went on to say that those oils had seen a reduction in Zinc and Moly anti-wear additives and that the product that I use was unaffected. Also, 50 weight oils were also unaffected.

Tech support also validates that the driving issue was one of economy with respect to modern engines and the OEM demands of oils in the context of mileage, etc. for original fill.

Thanks much for the post and head's-up - good of you.

Vlocity

The reformulations are an improvement for economy. I'm using the Full Synthetic 0-20w in my 05 Expedition th 0-20 superceded the 5 - 20w. It takes a lot of faith to pour what looks like water into the oil fill for the first time. This is also my tow vehicle for track events, so it tugs an 8000 pound trailer for hours on end. Thus far all is good and I plan to take an oil sample at the 7500 mile mark and see how the oil is holding up. It's rated at 25,000 mile interval , but with the severe service I have been changing it and the filter at 12,500. Mixed driving is 17.3 on the last 4 tanks as an average and that pretty close to where I was before on just highway mileage.

Best regards,

Ken

aeroman

I use that same oil. It was put in by one of the better Porsche shops in Seattle. It's supposed to be for diesel trucks.

I used to get a drip or two every now and then on the garage floor if it sat for a week or more. Now I get none whatsoever, but that could be because they changed the valve cover gaskets when they adjusted the valves.

N51

Bill,

We never hear from engine builders, only consumers. Wonder why.

I tried the Amsoil Euro 5W-40 and my RSA drank it like water. Back to Mobil.

My neighbor and friend - a heavy industrial mechanic for over thirty years - has been a long time advocate of Delvac or Rotella.
I'm beginning to understand why.

Noah

Indycam

Hot rod magazine said Rotella T is what they reccomend for high hp motors , it has the old high quantities of additives needed to protect ....
If it can protect diesel bearings at diesel compression ratios ......

I've been using it in my air cooled vw .
Gallon jug for not much money . So far so good .

Bill Wagner

Looking at some more of the stats in detail, it looks like newer versions of Mobil 1 15W-50 are still in spec in spite of their newer SM ratings. The "Extended Performance" version seemed to be up there with "old fashioned" ZDDP ratings.

bgiere

The Rotella synthetic is a fine oil, it will serve you well....It will soon have a CJ rating I am told and that is when the Zinc and Phosphorus levels may be lowered...There are many others as well...A good place to find them is the Virgin Oil Analysis section of www.bobistheoilguy.com

FWIW, the best used oil test results on my cars have come from using Rotella T in the street cars and Redline 10w40 in the race cars.

Bearclaw

I'm a longtime Redine/Amsoil fan for all my vehicles. Before my first oil change, I questioned Redline:

Barry,

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your oil/air cooled 911 I
would recommend the 10W40. I just today received the latest chemical composition for the motor oil from our chemist. The phosphorus is 1100ppm and the zinc is 1230ppm. Still sufficient levels for good flat tappet cam shaft protection.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil

So I'm using the Redline 10W/40. I'm curious why one would make the distinction between different products for track use and street use, when all these oils we're talking about are good, high-end products? Is it because of climate, usage pattern, cost, or something else? Just curious.

I used to read the BITOG website religiously, but it'll make your head spin, not to mention all these other discussion sites about it. I think the amount of material on the web about motor oil is second only to ****.

Bearclaw

Gotcha. Makes sense. Roger on the heat resistance, that's why I like Redline in the P-car and in my turbo cars. Not many other true Group 5 oils out there.

bgiere

Redline is able to handle extremely high oil temps (ester based) and my street cars never see those levels...In the cup car I found that 10w40 gave me the lowest wear rates. RL 10w40 also has a higher film strength than a conventional 20w50 and many synthetic 20w50's..and Redline is more than twice the cost of Rotella....

Bearclaw

Roger that too - but my car is a low-use garage queen that gets a good long freeway ride every couple weeks and a once-a-year oil change. So I figure she's worth the few bucks more a year...

911vet

There is an extensive thread on the Pelican board devoted to this subject with a wealth of information.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=367300

Because of what I learned there, I just ordered Swepco 306 15w40 from Charles Navarro at LN Engineering http://www.LNengineering.com

Brad Penn 20W50 is another option (also available from LN Engineering).

Check out the Pelican thread, it should answer most questions.

Shannon
87 Carrera Cabriolet Carmine Red (lurking on the 964 board)