umfan866

Hi,

I've been looking for several years for an 87-89 that is an affordable daily driver. I had wanted to get one with a recent top-end build already done,
and I saw and passed on some cars that were in the 14-18k range meeting
those criteria, if I looked very long and hard. I've also driven about 10 of
these. I like the visceral road feel, the looks, etc.

Checking out prices on 964's I am seeing how you can now get one for 20k
or below, and really nice, low-mileage 87-89 911's are actually higher prices than an average mid- to high-mileage 89 or 90 964. So now that's got me thinking .. should I go for a 964 instead? I don't like the styling quite as much but it's growing on me esp. on lowered 964s and those painted red.

I have never test-driven a 964 (or a 993 or 996/7 for that matter). I did drive an 85 911 with an 01 Boxster and GREATLY preferred the 911 and all its mechanical visceral sounds & and the air cooled engine etc. There is a red/black 964 that I can go to se locally ....

what should I look for on a 964 that I don't know to look for/at on a G50 911?
I am going to expect more power during the test drive, but is the feeling less visceral? Also my mechanic and a lot of magazines say to avoid the early 964s like the 89 and 90's .... I think because of the seal issue, is that true or vastly overblown -- assuming a car was well maintained?

OK please do share your thoughts. BTW based on all the hype I see about 993's I'm tempted to just try to get right into a 993 but it'd have to be a 1995
high-miles example..and I hear those have even less roadfeel...

Thanks for any advice/pointers/direction. Marvin.

FotoVeloce

The 964 is a great car. The older 911's are more 'classic' but there are some important things to consider wth a 964 over the older models.

- coil over suspension (not torsion bars). More flexible options for suspension IMHO
- brakes, much better brakes.
- rear suspension trailing arms changed and siffened up
- engine the 3.6 is a great motor with more power
- Air conditioner actually works!
- has the oil cooler up front stock, not just the looped tube (comming 911 update)
- better, stronger transaxle (and probably gearing too.. I think the 964 gearbox is better ratio wise than my 993)

There are likely other important or more important updates, that's all I could think of.

It's a sooooolid car for sure. Drive one or two, or more. Prices on they are quite reasonable IMHO for the 964. If you do go 964, think about the 91+ as I think they did the base gasket upgrade on the motors by then. I have a 90, no leak from the cylinder bases (probably was already done).

There are some good buying guides on the 964 out there too.. but I do not have any I can cut-paste for you.

RE: 993 vs 964. I'd have to agree, my '95 993 as less road feel than my '90 964. but there are other factors (power, suspension) that more than compensate for me... in fact I'll likely sell the 964 once I finish the tweaks I have planed for the 993. Maybe.. I'm a single guy with a condo.. 5 vehicles I do not need...

Superunknown

Once you drive a 964 you will be hooked!

Greg964

I was in your situation last year....87-89 911 vs early 964. I drove a few examples of each and really preferred the 964s extra power and the suspension set-up. The 3.2 cars just didn't have the punch I was looking for. Also the updated G50 in the 964 is much nicer than the G50 in the 3.2 cars. Both cars have their issues, just have a PPI done before you buy. Good luck,

kgorman

I would not stay away from 89/90 964's, just inspect a bit harder.

blake

My buddy has a mint 89 Targa, and I have a 94 964 Speedster. I have had the chance to drive both extensively. I must say, I prefer driving his car for the visceral feel. The 94 has power steering, and IMHO that takes a lot of the fun our of it. The only 964 I know of w/o power steering is the 93/94 RSA, and as you know, they are in the $40K+ range right now even with high miles. Simply put, the 964 is a more powerful car with more of the creature comforts (an evolution so to speak), which is then outclassed again with power and comfort by the 993.

What is your purpose for the car? As a weekend car for "thrills", I would recommend the 89 if you prefer a visceral feel over raw horsepower. My buudy loves his 89, but complains offen that he needs more power. The 964 would be much more comfortable over long road trips, but will add better handling, more horsepower, and more modern feel. It is still definitely more raw than a 993, but the generation change is evident between the late 80s Carrera and the 964s. You need to test a few 964s to get a real opinion... IMHO, Porsche's are a personal preference all about the right feel...

Good luck!
-B

meek

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned maintenance costs. The 3.2 is a much less complex car than the 964 and resultantly much cheaper ( if there is a cheap Porsche to maintain?!!? ) to service and fix unexpected problems. Mind you, that assumes that the 2 cars are of the same standard/condition.

MisterRisky

94Speedster makes a really good point. It's a bit like asking someone else to tell you what type of underwear to buy. We each have strong preferences and the boxer brief guys will tell you that both the boxer and brief guys are out to lunch and vice versa.

With that caveat, I am a boxer brief wearer and I think that the 964 is the boxer briefs of the Porsche 911 line. The older models were more "raw" but most recent models are a awfully expensive for what you get. The 964 sits in the middle with a few basic refinements (as mentioned above) but with a more affordable price point.

But then again, who am I to tell you which panties to wear!

bb964

Don’t forget the safety features like Antilock brakes and airbags. I don’t wont a car without airbags unless it's a specialty/antique/collectable car that is used rarely. I like my head much more than any particular model Porsche.

RS 197

964 all the way. I started out Porsche life with 3 911 G50 cars. They are great cars but not even close to the 964. RSA is a great choice, the suspension and the lack of power steering add alot to the feel.

964 are a steal right now. They will surpass the 993 in pricing over the next 5 year. Or at least match them.

Good luck

rodders

1. head issue - not an issue. all the early engines will have been done either under warranty or during re build
2. ABS
3. Heater / A/c works
4. Servicing - more expensive
5. power steering - only at very slow speed - otherwise not noticeable - the Euro RS has no power steering and on the road at slow speed - not nice
6. air bags or seat belts !! - you don't need both
summary - buy the 964 - a much better car

JohnMetro

Hi Jo, I like your thinking. Tell you what, let's do a deal. Why don't you beat the rush and buy my 964 for more than 993 price, and I'll quietly and humbly crawl away (and buy that black 993 I've been lusting after, and pocket the change as well!!!)

umfan866

Thanks guys. Well I think I need to go test drive
a 964 and for that matter a 993 before making a final
decision on an 87-89. The car will be a weekend toy
most likely and I'll continue to take the train to work
(unless I like it so much I want to commute 30 miles
each way in it per day.. in which case I'd better get
one with a rebuild already done).

I'm in Sacramento this weekend - has anyone checked
out this car before? I've seen it advertised about a year
ago also. It seems priced low but looks clean from the
pics. Perhaps it needs a rebuild and/or has the early
964 engine issues that you guys brought up (and that
Excellence mentions too)?

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/car/361126713.html

jimq

if it hasnt been rebuilt it probably will need at least a top end.

Chris M.

Unless it's already been rebuilt I doubt there's any way this car could have engine issues with that kind of mileage. Do your homework and get a thorough PPI including compression and leakdown tests.