warmfuzzies

As the topic suggests really, I'm thinking of some upgrades to the old girl, things like peakier cams etc, so where do I get them from??

I've looked at 9m's site, but it's really never working properly in IE or Firefox, so that's off the menu, but I'm not sure about Stuttgart connection, Rennsport or others, hence my question to you guys/gals.

Thanks

kevin

harris

try Neil Beinbridge @ bsmotorsport.co.uk

great guy

near Bicester - (oxford)...

IanR

You could look at a hot wire MAF - I think Promax do one for the 964.

Megatron-UK

Does that actually work? I was under the impression that these conversions merely 'fudge' the values coming from the mass air flow sensor into the equivalent AFM readings.

DaveK

I believe they do fudge - it's the fact that there isn't a big flap obstructing the air flow that's supposed to give the difference I think.

It's one of those things where some people will tell you it definitely works, and some people say it definitely doesn't. I tend more towards the "doesn't".

a964man

I second Neil Bainbridge, very helpfull guy

Red rooster

I have known Neil for many years . Listen to what he says !
There are not many UK Porsche guys I would say that about .

Geoff

NineMeister

Sorry about our site being offline, an email address got pirated last year and we lost our original site and then as of last week our temporary site (built by our ex-IT gut) got hijacked and we lost our index pages .....

.. but the last time I looked the phone is still working.

We have a good cam/spring/retainer package for the 964, but please listen when I say that you will not get any more performance from your engine unless you replace the engine management and injectors first. I know I have been banging on about the 9m Motec conversion for years but I have all the dyno results to back up our claims if you want to see them. In a nutshell the stock parts are incapable of supporting more than 310hp whereas on the 9m Motec conversion we always see above 325hp with a completely standard engine, so there is no point in fitting parts that you cannot benefit from.

My second point is that it you will also be limited in performance by the ability of the tuner to get the best from the package that you choose, the dyno curve below from a customer's 964RS being a perfect example of this. The car had a Motec conversion done elsewhere, without going into detail I think the before/after dyno results speak for themselves (irrespective of the relative accuracy of the dyno!). I assure you that this was the same engine, the only items we changed were the fuel injectors and airbox.

Red rooster

Colin,

Before Motronic is completely condemmed why not switch to a non Vario 993
system which is a MAF system , increase injector size and map accordingly ?
Got to be a lot less money than Motec which I have always viewed as an
aftermarket system that needs periodic readjustment like any open loop
throttle position set up.
I cannot see any ignition/fuelling variation that cannot be covered to stop either system having some huge advantage !

You are absolutely right that there are people out there who should find another place in life rather than map motors ! Maybe thats the big problem ?

Geoff

tonytaylor

As always upgrades depends on budget but...

I would suggest going either the 9M Motec route or the hot film route. I've had my hotfilm for about 6 years now and the engine consistently puts out 300hp or thereabouts which seems to be about right for the AMD conversions. I can't vouch for other conversions though.
There seems little point in opening up the engine if 300hp is enough. Similarly Motec on it's own gives even more power for not much more money on a basicly stock engine.

Now if your budget is into 5 figures

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Kevin:

There are lots of things one can do to the 964 3.6 for improved performance and some of them are not horribly expensive,...

One had the late plastic intake, RS cams, pre-muffler, a secondary muffler bypass and custom software. this one made 291 HP.

The other one had the aluminum intake and was factory stock except for a custom chip and made 261 HP. Both engines were very carefully assembled to tolerances that Porsche (for obvious reasons) cannot do in the production environment.

Both were completely rebuilt at the same time before being broken-in on the dyno followed by a series of power runs. We did not spend a lot of time mapping these due to budgetary issues and there is room for improvement, but both run very well in the car,....

NineMeister

I guess it all boils down to my needs to supply a commercially viable solution so if I did go down this route I would only supply new parts, and when you price everything up there is not much (if any) of a saving against the 9m Motec conversion. Besides which all our Motec conversions are fully mapped in-house and we both know how important this is for getting the job perfect.

Red rooster

tonytaylor,

I did your AmD conversion and ,yes , about 300bhp is right. Life has this habit of moving on and a OBD1 993 non Varioram set up would actually be easier and more mapping friendly.

What I struggle with is why a potentiometer driven fuel/spark system will give another 25 bhp over a 993 MAF system.

This is either a serious ommission by DME tuners which should be identified or
dare I say it, optimism !

The amounts of money involved here are seriously different which is why I cannot shrug my shoulders with indifference.

I am sure that Colin must be very tired of all this apparent attacking , but there is a fundemental technical issue here . It just keeps nagging at me even though
it means nothing to me commercially .

Geoff

SimonExtreme

Geoff
As you know, I have an AmD conversion and also get anywhere between 300 and 309 bhp, depending on RR. I want to try to understand what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that with the DME in my 964RS, I could fit bigger injectors and remap? Or do I need the 993 DME? It was my understanding that the 964 DME couldn't be (satisfactorily) used to manage bigger injectors.

Following from that, I believe that Colin's claim is that he can get more power with the MoTeC and bigger injectors than can be got with standard injectors and Motronic. As you cannot power bigger injectors with the 964 Motronic DME, you need to change DME to get the results and Colin has commented on that above.

To compare results, how much more power can one get with bigger injectors and sticking with Bosche DME. Which DME does one need? I have a funny feeling you are both achieving similar results from different directions.

Twood

I have a Autothority MAF and Autithority chip for sale if you are interested.
Performance was excellant but for a daily drive car I was not happy with the idle.