Which Performance Chip?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
From: Sydney, Australia
So, to simplify this arguement. If you think that 10 bhp, 13 lb/ft and a better torque curve is of no value and boring, don't go near a custom chip.
However, if you have good enough fuel, that should be considered the minimum standard that is acceptable and, IMO, if you cannot tell the difference when driving, then learning mechanical empathy (if it can be taught!!) might be a higher priority than more power!
However, if you have good enough fuel, that should be considered the minimum standard that is acceptable and, IMO, if you cannot tell the difference when driving, then learning mechanical empathy (if it can be taught!!) might be a higher priority than more power!
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 103
From: SoCal
"If you think that 10 bhp, 13 lb/ft and a better torque curve is of no value and boring, don't go near a custom chip."
Remember, those numbers are at the max RPM, i.e. about 5HP @ 3000, and require ALWAYS
finding the best octane. Who drives at the max RPM all the time?
The 993 numbers best exemplifier what kind of mods are required for
noticeable HP chenges:
Bore - 100mm/102mm
HP - 272 (6100)/300 (6500)
Torque - 330 (5000)/355 (5400)
Valve Timing - 911 Carrera/911 Carrera RS (deg)
Intake Opens - +1/+5 TDC
Intake Closes - -60/-58 BDC
Exhaust Opens - +45/+50 TDC
Exhaust Closes - -5/-2 BDC
To get an additional 28HP required increased bore AND cam changes
AND a RPM revv increase.
So, NO custom tuning will gain any real increases over just tweaking
the timing.
Remember, those numbers are at the max RPM, i.e. about 5HP @ 3000, and require ALWAYS
finding the best octane. Who drives at the max RPM all the time?
The 993 numbers best exemplifier what kind of mods are required for
noticeable HP chenges:
Bore - 100mm/102mm
HP - 272 (6100)/300 (6500)
Torque - 330 (5000)/355 (5400)
Valve Timing - 911 Carrera/911 Carrera RS (deg)
Intake Opens - +1/+5 TDC
Intake Closes - -60/-58 BDC
Exhaust Opens - +45/+50 TDC
Exhaust Closes - -5/-2 BDC
To get an additional 28HP required increased bore AND cam changes
AND a RPM revv increase.
So, NO custom tuning will gain any real increases over just tweaking
the timing.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,305
Likes: 16
From: Kingston, NY
Loren does make some good points in that what I think he is saying is the aftermarket chips may increase the timing to produce some additional torque, but it is mostly only the full throttle map that is altered. This leaves the large range in the main table untouched or touched minimally. This is where additional benefits can be made if you take the time to program the table properly.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,739
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
Loren does make some good points in that what I think he is saying is the aftermarket chips may increase the timing to produce some additional torque, but it is mostly only the full throttle map that is altered. This leaves the large range in the main table untouched or touched minimally. This is where additional benefits can be made if you take the time to program the table properly.
).
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,305
Likes: 16
From: Kingston, NY
Colin, I would agree with you and I've said that in the past. When are you going to let me rebuild your engine so you can be 1st not 5th? I think for those of us who have race cars, a street car is just never the same as it once was. Even my 700hp turbo doesn't make sense to me anymore, 2 gears and you are in ticket territory. I am not saying that chips for the street are meaningless, you can get some real gains in fuel economy and power from a properly done aftermarket chip for those who want to.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,739
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
When are you going to let me rebuild your engine so you can be 1st not 5th?
). But my thought is to do the engine in the next 1-2 seasons.
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 849
Likes: 8
From: Schenectady NY
Originally Posted by 38D
Well, I plan I being 4th (Charlie may not like that plan ). But my thought is to do the engine in the next 1-2 seasons.
). But my thought is to do the engine in the next 1-2 seasons.Be aware that Berlack, Novak and Westerdiun can all drive and have all finished p1 or p2 in tough classes, F, D ect. An off day will put most in p6 or worse.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,739
Likes: 894
From: About to pass you...
Originally Posted by fstockcarrera
Be aware that Berlack, Novak and Westerdiun can all drive and have all finished p1 or p2 in tough classes, F, D ect. An off day will put most in p6 or worse.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,430
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From: Columbus, NJ
Originally Posted by 38D
Absolutely true. GTC1 now has some pretty impressive depth for a small class. I've raced against Al & Steve quite a bit in D, so I know they are both good and will be tough. My hope is to be the "best of the rest" as I really dont think I can run with the "Big 3" quite yet. I can't wait for the season to start!
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
From: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted by Geoffrey
......you can get some real gains in fuel economy and power from a properly done aftermarket chip for those who want to.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: TX - wasn't born here but got here fast as I could...
I have a Euro 964 RS chip from TPC in Maryland. Had in for about 9 yrs. I just changed out to a LWF and I do notice a diffence. On over run, the car used to pop and gurgle. It doesn't do that now - it runs really, really good.
