Killed my 964, do I resurrect her? - Long
12-13-2006, 05:40 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Killed my 964, do I resurrect her? - Long
The title sounds worse than it really is so a litle explanation is required.
Last Sunday I has an accident in my 964 which resulted in me hitting a post that some man from the highways agency decided was necessary to protect the grass verge. The weather was awful and it happened on a road they use as a car park when Brighton & Hove Albion are playing at home so it's always covered in oil from leaking engines so I was only doing about 35-40mph when the back end went. I hit the post head on which caused both airbags to go off and crunched the bumper which needs replacing.
Structurally it is not bad. The front left wing has been pushed back a fraction, at first I didn't notice but it is literally just rubbing the paint off the leading edge of the door.
Both front and rear screens need replacing.
I thought I would try my luck first of all and I had the car taken to my local dealers approved repair shop. The quote has come back with a huge number of items which do not need replacing such as a rear bumper which has a car park scratch on it and was not damaged in the accident. A new bonnet badge to replace the perfectly good one still on the front of the car. A new front wing that it not damaged. Painting a door which has no damage apart from stone chips from the past 5 years of ownership, not a stone in sight at the crash site. As a result I have an estimate for £17,212 PLUS VAT including £1085 for "miscellanious items". I sent the detailed estimate to my mechanic who is convinced we can do the work for a fraction of the cost and probably do more than is required.
The insurance inspector has been to see the car and I spoke to him today. With the estimate from the approved repair shop they obviously would rather just write the car off. For that I would receive £13,500. I need to come to some conclusions fairly quickly as I have an impending house purchase to make so I cannot really waste the time having the car shipped around for other quotes. I do however have the option of coming to a setllement with the insurance company whereby I get to keep the car for a reduced payout. As a result of this I would get £10,290 and the car but it would be classed as Category C - "Repairable Total Loss" which basically means the cost of repair was too high but structurally it is fine. Regardless the resale value will take a pretty big hit though I wasn't planning on selling it anytime soon anyway.
I would never have sold the car to ease the burden of the house purchase but now the situation has been forced upon me I need to put as much towards the house as possible. I would like to keep the car if at all possible but I have set myself a max of £5000 repair costs to leave me enough towards the house so I need to try and keep the costs down where possible. As a result I have some questions about my options.
1. My car is a 1991 so in the UK did not need to have airbags. What is required to simply remove the airbag system from the car rather than replace it? Can it simply be unplugged and stripped out as this would save me a hefty chunk of cash?
2. Is a new front bumper and front sections of undertray an expensive item? Are there any good aftermarket ones without fitment issues?
3. The bumper has been pushed up a bit in one corner. Obviously it depends how badly but can I even consider the idea that this might reversable or is it simply not possible and needs replacing?
As always any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Last Sunday I has an accident in my 964 which resulted in me hitting a post that some man from the highways agency decided was necessary to protect the grass verge. The weather was awful and it happened on a road they use as a car park when Brighton & Hove Albion are playing at home so it's always covered in oil from leaking engines so I was only doing about 35-40mph when the back end went. I hit the post head on which caused both airbags to go off and crunched the bumper which needs replacing.
Structurally it is not bad. The front left wing has been pushed back a fraction, at first I didn't notice but it is literally just rubbing the paint off the leading edge of the door.
Both front and rear screens need replacing.
I thought I would try my luck first of all and I had the car taken to my local dealers approved repair shop. The quote has come back with a huge number of items which do not need replacing such as a rear bumper which has a car park scratch on it and was not damaged in the accident. A new bonnet badge to replace the perfectly good one still on the front of the car. A new front wing that it not damaged. Painting a door which has no damage apart from stone chips from the past 5 years of ownership, not a stone in sight at the crash site. As a result I have an estimate for £17,212 PLUS VAT including £1085 for "miscellanious items". I sent the detailed estimate to my mechanic who is convinced we can do the work for a fraction of the cost and probably do more than is required.
The insurance inspector has been to see the car and I spoke to him today. With the estimate from the approved repair shop they obviously would rather just write the car off. For that I would receive £13,500. I need to come to some conclusions fairly quickly as I have an impending house purchase to make so I cannot really waste the time having the car shipped around for other quotes. I do however have the option of coming to a setllement with the insurance company whereby I get to keep the car for a reduced payout. As a result of this I would get £10,290 and the car but it would be classed as Category C - "Repairable Total Loss" which basically means the cost of repair was too high but structurally it is fine. Regardless the resale value will take a pretty big hit though I wasn't planning on selling it anytime soon anyway.
I would never have sold the car to ease the burden of the house purchase but now the situation has been forced upon me I need to put as much towards the house as possible. I would like to keep the car if at all possible but I have set myself a max of £5000 repair costs to leave me enough towards the house so I need to try and keep the costs down where possible. As a result I have some questions about my options.
1. My car is a 1991 so in the UK did not need to have airbags. What is required to simply remove the airbag system from the car rather than replace it? Can it simply be unplugged and stripped out as this would save me a hefty chunk of cash?
2. Is a new front bumper and front sections of undertray an expensive item? Are there any good aftermarket ones without fitment issues?
3. The bumper has been pushed up a bit in one corner. Obviously it depends how badly but can I even consider the idea that this might reversable or is it simply not possible and needs replacing?
As always any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
12-13-2006, 06:12 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Jim
I am sorry to here your news but I would "take the money" rather than rebuild. However, I would never accept the first figure they offer. Do your homework so you can put forward a very good case for the true value of the car.
Why would I not repair? First, never repair a car on the cheap. OK, there is no need to pay over the top but I don't care what your mechanic says, you cannot do a repair that one garage says costs £17,00+ for only £5000. I am concerned you are underestimating costs because of some of your comments. For instance, have you ever tried getting a bonnet badge off?
Second, as soon as it's on a register, even as a Cat C, it's worth nothing. If it was a very rare car, maybe repair but think what you would have said last week if somebody came on this forum and said they had seen a Cat C car at a reasonable price and wanting to know if they should buy. Surely the advice would be that there are enough out there that are clean and to wait for another.
I hope you manage to get this sorted.
I am sorry to here your news but I would "take the money" rather than rebuild. However, I would never accept the first figure they offer. Do your homework so you can put forward a very good case for the true value of the car.
Why would I not repair? First, never repair a car on the cheap. OK, there is no need to pay over the top but I don't care what your mechanic says, you cannot do a repair that one garage says costs £17,00+ for only £5000. I am concerned you are underestimating costs because of some of your comments. For instance, have you ever tried getting a bonnet badge off?
Second, as soon as it's on a register, even as a Cat C, it's worth nothing. If it was a very rare car, maybe repair but think what you would have said last week if somebody came on this forum and said they had seen a Cat C car at a reasonable price and wanting to know if they should buy. Surely the advice would be that there are enough out there that are clean and to wait for another.
I hope you manage to get this sorted.
12-13-2006, 06:56 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Simon,
I am certainly leaning that way but I like to keep my options open. £5000 is not what I am estimating the cost to be, it is the rough limit I am setting on the repair, I have no idea what he can do it for, I have to get the car to him before I can get a definite figure from him. I also would not repair the car "on the cheap", certainly on anything which is structural, but things like the airbag system are not vital but expensive items and as it is not a legal requirement it is an option to consider. I would only put an aftermarket bumper on it if it is a good fit, there are plenty of 965 kits out there which are probably worth a look but if anyone knows of one please chime in.
And yes, I have replaced a bonnet badge, this one is less than a year old
(though the cost make it an irrelevence it was really meant as an example). Another factor which niggles a bit is that I had it MOT'd the Friday before the accident and also paid just under £1000 for various bits and pieces totally unaffected by the crash.
I won't make a decision until my mechanic has gone over it in detail, just doing some digging at this point.
I am certainly leaning that way but I like to keep my options open. £5000 is not what I am estimating the cost to be, it is the rough limit I am setting on the repair, I have no idea what he can do it for, I have to get the car to him before I can get a definite figure from him. I also would not repair the car "on the cheap", certainly on anything which is structural, but things like the airbag system are not vital but expensive items and as it is not a legal requirement it is an option to consider. I would only put an aftermarket bumper on it if it is a good fit, there are plenty of 965 kits out there which are probably worth a look but if anyone knows of one please chime in.
And yes, I have replaced a bonnet badge, this one is less than a year old
(though the cost make it an irrelevence it was really meant as an example). Another factor which niggles a bit is that I had it MOT'd the Friday before the accident and also paid just under £1000 for various bits and pieces totally unaffected by the crash.I won't make a decision until my mechanic has gone over it in detail, just doing some digging at this point.
12-13-2006, 07:08 PM
#5
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Sorry to hear this Jim!! It's the worst nightmare for all of us!! Hope the G-Pipe came out ok!!!!
Good luck with either fixing the 964 or finding something better to replace it with!!
Andy
Good luck with either fixing the 964 or finding something better to replace it with!!
Andy
12-13-2006, 07:22 PM
#6
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If they're offering you £13,500, or £10,290 and the car, they're valuing the car now at £3,210. It's got to be worth more than that as parts, if you've got the time and inclination.
12-13-2006, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IanR
If they're offering you £13,500, or £10,290 and the car, they're valuing the car now at £3,210. It's got to be worth more than that as parts, if you've got the time and inclination.
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12-13-2006, 07:36 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Whatever you choose to do, you need to haggle with the insurance company - take some time to make a solid case and get a bigger check from them regardless of which direction you take.
If you already have enough cars (not including the 964) for daily commuting, you might consider taking the check and keeping the car, then having it as a little "project car" in your garage - and sell it off piece by piece over the course of a year and make a decent bit of money.
Another "project car" option - if it's an option for you - is take the money and make it into a dedicated race car
If you want a 911 daily driver, though, and/or "projects" aren't desirable, seems in the long run the best thing would be to take a check for total writeoff and look for a new (to you) one.
Haggle haggle haggle!
If you already have enough cars (not including the 964) for daily commuting, you might consider taking the check and keeping the car, then having it as a little "project car" in your garage - and sell it off piece by piece over the course of a year and make a decent bit of money.
Another "project car" option - if it's an option for you - is take the money and make it into a dedicated race car
If you want a 911 daily driver, though, and/or "projects" aren't desirable, seems in the long run the best thing would be to take a check for total writeoff and look for a new (to you) one.
Haggle haggle haggle!
12-13-2006, 07:41 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have considered the idea of parting it out if it costs too much to fix and I am sure I could come to an agreement with my mechanic whereby he takes it all apart for a share of the money got for the parts.
In fact the figure for the car includes my £375 excess but the low figure is not a reflection of the damage done to the car as they have a fixed value in these cases of 21% of the total settlement figure which is in fact only £2835 so if I get it back I am buying it for a very good price.
In fact the figure for the car includes my £375 excess but the low figure is not a reflection of the damage done to the car as they have a fixed value in these cases of 21% of the total settlement figure which is in fact only £2835 so if I get it back I am buying it for a very good price.
12-13-2006, 07:55 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have no other car and I rent a space in a secure car park rather than have my own garage so no projects for me personally.
My 964 has been the only car I've had for the past 5 years, it was exactly what I was looking for, a tubo bodied car without the additonal running costs of a turbo, it was in an uncommon colour, especially for a turbo body which was something else I was looking for. When I said I have no intention of selling it I really mean it, the only downside is it being LHD but I have said since I bought it that I would rather turn that into the car I want rather than change for another one as I was so happy with it as a starting point hence my desire to keep it if possible but I must be realistic when I make my mind up.
My 964 has been the only car I've had for the past 5 years, it was exactly what I was looking for, a tubo bodied car without the additonal running costs of a turbo, it was in an uncommon colour, especially for a turbo body which was something else I was looking for. When I said I have no intention of selling it I really mean it, the only downside is it being LHD but I have said since I bought it that I would rather turn that into the car I want rather than change for another one as I was so happy with it as a starting point hence my desire to keep it if possible but I must be realistic when I make my mind up.
12-13-2006, 08:06 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
If you are that emotionally attached to it - I'd say get the money and have it fixed properly - bearing in mind:
1. Make sure you get enough money to have it fixed properly
2. You'll get hurt on resale at some point in time - but maybe not if you keep it forever
1. Make sure you get enough money to have it fixed properly
2. You'll get hurt on resale at some point in time - but maybe not if you keep it forever
12-13-2006, 08:15 PM
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[QUOTE=SimonExtreme]Second, as soon as it's on a register, even as a Cat C, it's worth nothing.QUOTE]
Why would someone want to say something like that when there are people like me that have spent 6 months or more repairing and restoring a Cat C 964?
I say go for it, a cheap repair is very very possible at a very very high standard at the fraction of the price, if you like the car that much then get your repairer to do that cracking job.
I found loads of parts on eBay and other second hand places at a fraction of the price of new parts, with absolutely perfect in every way and my car is in tip top shape.
The price to repair mine from the insurance company was a wopping £22,000 so yours is a drop in the ocean.
Why would someone want to say something like that when there are people like me that have spent 6 months or more repairing and restoring a Cat C 964?
I say go for it, a cheap repair is very very possible at a very very high standard at the fraction of the price, if you like the car that much then get your repairer to do that cracking job.
I found loads of parts on eBay and other second hand places at a fraction of the price of new parts, with absolutely perfect in every way and my car is in tip top shape.
The price to repair mine from the insurance company was a wopping £22,000 so yours is a drop in the ocean.
Last edited by jeffnudd; 12-13-2006 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Adding text
12-13-2006, 08:37 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Jeff, that's very encouraging to hear that it can be done. To be fair to Simon he is correct regards the resale value down the line and I'd rather people were frank with their advice though I think that for you and I the resale value is less important, the value of having the car far outwieghs it. For me as well as the fact I love the car it is also that I cannot afford to replace the car with a pay out, I would need more money than I have available with what I need to do for the house-buy and whereas I would have struggled for 12 months in order to keep the car, I realistically can only do this if I can keep enough of the £10,290 for other things.
12-13-2006, 09:10 PM
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I don't know if I'm missing something but for me, it is a no brainer!! Just the engine, cosmetic parts and wheels are well worth and way more what the insurance company will give you for the car. Keep the car and try to get 11.5K in cash. Fix it well and you'll have 6K for the house.
Really nice car!!
Really nice car!!