NineMeister

Quote from customer with 964RSL that has our Motec +1 package in the form of a text message from Germany last week:

"I know I rattle on about my engine an awful lot, but it is truly exceptional, powering me to an indicated 160mph lap after lap on the Flugplatz just before the hump on the Nurburgring, exactly the same speed as my pal in his new 997 Turbo !
In my lifetime of cars I've never experienced such a fantastic value for money conversion, just need to find that 6 speed transaxle !
Thanks so much, your engine is brilliant !


Right, so that's a 340-350bhp 964RS lightweight matching the speed of a brand new 997 turbo....

I rest my case.

NineMeister

Forgot to mention:

The 964RS ran for 13 laps (approx 13 miles per lap flat out) on one tank full of fuel.

The 997 Turbo managed 3.

Now there's eficient use of the Worlds resources!

Eggplant Cab

Well Colin, it's a little unfair that one car, built as a GT sports carr, is compared to a lightweight race prepared car. If you want to compare, then test the emissions, drive 1000miles in it with your wife and kids and see if you live. Sure the Ring is the benchmark for GT and sports car alike, but apples and mangoes can't be compared for anything except they are fruit.
As for the 997 turbo consumption, I was at the Ring last month and my friend's 997 Turbo did 10 laps in 2 days(all under 9 mins which is pretty good with the amount of traffic we had) and managed to drive back to the hotel twice without a fillup. If I remember correctly, his avg consumption was 7mpg in a 17.7 gallon tank. The RS I believe has a 24gallon tank doing 10 laps for 13 miles is about 5.4mpg.

SimonExtreme

So true yet........the above is why turbos are so suited to good 4WD cars, particularly for rallying. 4WD is such a good tool for channeling the way turbo cars produce their power. If, as an example, you take my old Mitsubishi Evo with 450+bhp was far easier to drive round Oulton Park than my 300 bhp 964RS! But I sold the Evo because it was boring, fly by wire, electronically controlled (interfered!)and ultimately not as challenging or fun as a true thoroughbred RWD N/A.

Having said that, money no object, my ultimate 911 would probably be a 993 GT2 Clubsport!

NineMeister

The standard RSL has a 78litre tank if I remember rightly which is 17 gallons, thus an average of 9. something to the mile. The 997 turbo has a 90 litre tank and its economy depends on how fast it is driven.

Look, I see where you are all coming from but I must refer everyone back to the original question: which engine is best for Tony's track car? , not what car can I buy that is faster/better/economical/comfortable/etc. In my opinion Tony has just two real choices for what to do with his 964 as I commented above.

warmfuzzies

Colin,

What would you recomend for us poor sods with 93 cars that require cats, as I notice a lot of talk on your website refers to non catted cars......it kind of puts me at a disadvantage.

critera ....none except affordability..............................

kevin.

SimonExtreme

Learn how to bolt mone back on once a year

Or (serious suggestion) a sports cat. I don't know enough about 964 cats but I would imagine that you can get either a 100 cell or 50 cell cat. 50 cell cats should flow almost as well as decat but i cannot be sure they pass MOT (think so). Only problem is £££££!

Eggplant Cab

I think you are mistaken,Colin. The 997 Porsche Turbo has a 67 liter fuel tank. As for the 964 RS, all came with 92 liter tanks. I'm not sure about the 3.8 RSL C4 though, since it is a very limited production model.

My reply about the 964 turbo was actually directed at ZIMPWH, who originally posted the topic, not TonyT.
I do not doubt your expertise and opinion, but when you say things that are not true(re tank size and consumption of the 997 Turbo), even if you are merely quoting your clients, then it should be corrected. I hope I'm not being overly pedantic with that.

SimonExtreme

Based on this post, and because I belive everything I read on the internet, I have just filled my car up with 92 litres. Who do I send the bill to for the 15 litres that has gone all over the floor, my cloths, the car etc? Or do I not have a real 964RS

The long range tank was an option.......

Eggplant Cab

Well the one I was looking at way back in 93 brand new had it standard but I stand very much corrected on that point. Didn't you read about the Mars thing coming up next week... surely you believe that?

SimonExtreme

Its something that has intergued me because I have heard so many things as to which really was standard! According to the PET, the 92 litre tank was for the RS with option code M545. M545 is listed as 92 litre tank! However, what I don't know is whether the default was option M545 with the ability to specify the car without the option or whether the default was the small tank.

However, your original poiunt was probably well made. If the RS had a small tank, the fuel consumption was good, if it was the large tank, it was bad.

Now, what was that about Mars..........

AVoyvoda

The car in question was probably RHD. Didn't RHD cars have the small tanks as standard?

KirkF

Fuel tank sizes are interesting... But a little off topic regarding 400 reliable horsepower.

Shouldn't this discussion begin with where the car is going to be used? Is this a strictly track car, mixed use, or street only?

Looking at the TPC site they show a dyno run that peaks at 355 hp. And they say that with an intercooler you will gain another 40hp. So they are at 395ish.
I wish they had posted a dyno run of the 964 with the intercooler as well.

But the car in question is a modified to 3.8L, can the 7th injector add enough fuel to this setup? I believe colin mentioned in the past that the stock injectors are good for just over 300 hp, If the 7th injector is good for about 60hp, it looks like fuel delivery is going to be an issue.

How about using the TPC kit with intercooler $6995 USD + $3995 USD
Use Motec,with larger injectors, and keep the 7th injector for the added cooling. $6000??

I think colin has done some tpc installs with motec, so Im sure he can let us know what the costs and pitfalls of this plan would be. Geoffrey might have worked with this as well but I think he got rid of the 7th injector? (Cant remember for sure)

Does anyone know what type of intercooler the TPC one is?

??

Also as far as I know the rest of the stcok internals are more than capable of handling 400hp. Is this true? (aside from rod bolts which I am guessing were changed to arp or raceware when the 3.8 l conversion was done)

Kirk

puma1824

It's a water-to-air intercooler with it's own coolant resevior and radiator.

zimpwh

Thanks for steering the discussion back along its original path. I think I will go the Motec route first with my engine/exhaust setup as is. Has anyone here used Midwest Eurosport near Chicago for a Motec install/dyno tune? They seam to be my closest Motec Dealer. I'd like to use Geoffrey in NY but he may be too busy with his own projects. Any other Motec installers/tuners in the Midwest or Southern East Coast that folks here have used?