PAOLOP

Hi all!
I'm on a slippery slope!!!
On my 90 C4 (100 cell cat, cup pipe, hot film + chip Cargraphic, pagid black, Koni Cup + H&R springs, strut brace, Heigo roll bar, Recaro Pole Position, Schroth 6-points) I want more hp and, above all, more torque.

I see two ways:
1) 3.8 L
2) Motec management with large injectors (like 9M)

Could you suggest something?

In my car I need the a/c for home/track/home way.
This is in contrast with Motec? I need Motronic+Motec?

Ciao
Paolo

forklift

Try this: http://www.ninemeister.com/site/48.html

PAOLOP

Thank you forklift!

Any other advices?

Paolo

garrett376

get a turbo or supercharger - that will give you the most power increase....

Geoffrey

I think the return on the 3.8l upgrade is not worth the cost as a separately installed upgrade. Any aftermarket engine management system allows you to optimize your current engine and addresses several of the current issues. a) removes the air flow meter restriction and allows for a better breathing intake setup. b) easily works with a LWF conversion for quicker throttle response. c) will take advantage of an exhaust system upgrade. You can then begin to add camshafts, head porting or different heads in the future and you have an engine management system that is flexible enough to be reprogrammed for it.

PAOLOP

Garrett, I don't want the turbo.

Geoffrey, I like the 9M' Motec setup, for the adapter harness/wiring above all.
But, in your opinion/experience, Motec really gives a lot of torque?
Also with standard cams and heads?
What about a/c?

Ciao
Paolo

Geoffrey

It is the engine that makes the power, the engine management system only allows you to optimize it for your particular engine configuration and usage (eg. 93 octane fuel). The 9M setup makes it easy to plug and play a MoTeC ECU and it will give you more power and torque. A/C will still work.

PAOLOP

Geoffrey, what else?

Thanks a lot!

Gretings from Italy
Paolo

chancecasey

What do Motec tuning sessions go for these days?

Heirsh

Isn't the beauty of motec that you can tune it yourself? Log the data you'd need (wide band o2 output with rpm, throttle etc ...) analyze it, make changes to the program, then download it?

How hard is this actually?

chancecasey

I don't know if the software you get with it allows for actual tuning or not - maybe that's extra. Perhaps Geoffery can chime in here. I do know that the wideband lambda feature is only available for the first 6 hours of runtime in the "non pro" version - so I'd imagine you get hit with a lot of extra $$$ for getting the ability to tune it yourself but I don't know. Then there's the issue of dyno time.

Something I noticed on that website...
http://www.ninemeister.com/site/47.html

Seems to claim 325bhp with JUST a Motec on a 964. Yeah, right. I don't think there's enough slop on a stock 964 to get any more than 15 or 20HP from just ignition/fuel remaps - depending on how good your fuel is and what your DME's fuel quality switch is set to.

dave morris

Well .... I'd ask why you want more hp/torque. Only if you are driving your car at it's limit now, and even then a big hp increase is not ... IMO ... a cost effective modification in the long run.

Geoffrey

Software is free from MoTeC and you can download it from their website www.motec.com and look at it. It provides full access to all engine control parameters. There are some additional features you can buy, but that is mainly lambda support, advanced features such as used with drag racing/turbo cars, and data loggin. The older ECUs M4, M48 has software that is far simplier than M400/600/800 (which is what I run in my car), but still requires some setup. The ECUs come with 6 hours of wideband support for free (8 hours on the 400/600/800 ECUs) and after than you need to order a software key to unlock the feature. M400/600/800 supports dual wideband (I have dual). While you could datalog air fuel ratio and make changes, you cannot set ignition timing without a dyno that allows for steady state tuning. You get most of the performance from ignition timing, not from fuel. So, can you get a car to run by keywacking an ECU? Yes...but in reality, it needs to be set up on a dyno and validated against datalogging and how the engine sounds/feels, especially during cold starting, etc. Someone who knows how to tune things like injection end angle, air temp correction, barometric correction for alt. and weather changes, sensor type and calibration is really required to get a MoTeC system up and running with any degree of stability.

"Seems to claim 325bhp with JUST a Motec on a 964. Yeah, right. I don't think there's enough slop on a stock 964 to get any more than 15 or 20HP from just ignition/fuel remaps - depending on how good your fuel is and what your DME's fuel quality switch is set to."

You are also removing air intake restrictions and changing to a better method for determining engine load for fuel metering and ignition timing.

Heirsh

Thanks for the info Geoffrey.

chancecasey

So it sounds like the tuning is not really for beginners. If someone were interested in learning, though, what would you recommend they do?