NewPorscheGuy

Was considering adding a 964 C4 to play the role of winter car. Right now I have an Audi B7 S4 playing that role, but once the lease is up I have no intention of keeping it and wanted something that won't be too much of a bummer to drive after the Cayman.

Was thinking maybe an S4 or RS4, but those are a lot of money that might be better spent upgrading the Cayman's power and on a cheaper Winter car, perhaps a 2005 or 2006 STi, or a 964 C4 (which should all be in the low to mid 20k range for a good car by the time I'll want one). So the question is:

If you put a good set of snows on the C4s, are they doable as winter daily drivers?

I live in the northeast and the snow conditions vary from winter to winter, but I do need something that can handle 4-5 inches of unplowed in the morning for a short commute a couple of times a year and that is comfortable in two inches of poorly plowed a lot more often. I realize that the Porsches are too low to handle the 10+ inch dumps that we occasionally get, but if I really need to head out in those I can borrow the wife's allroad/Q7 or get a ride to/from work with her.

Your experiences would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Jay H

I'll let the C4 owner's give you their experience, but it's very common for people to use 964 C4's in the winter with the proper tires. The AWD system in the 964 is very robust and could arguably be the best AWD system Porsche made for 911's for poor weather like snow and slippery conditions.

Even C2's will do well with correct winter tires. As you mentioned, ground clearance will be an issue in large snowfalls.

Good luck,

Jay
90 964

NotTwinTurboYet

964 C4 has one of the best 4WD transmition. The grip is amazing even on snow. You can also lock the differentials, and it goes everywhere! The height is the real limitation.
I had many other 4WD cars, but only the Sub STI was better. Anyway, the 964 was the only one to offer the possibility to lock the diffs.

BTW, I think roads are full of salt in the winter, just like what we have in Switzerland, and it kills the cars. And it's a shame to do that to a 964

Look at the following picture, suspensions are 3 months old... in the winter, snow and of course salt!



I recommend Pirelly Winter Snow Sport 240, still the best winter tires I tested.

A+

Euromagination

There are a few recent threads about this that you may be interested in searching for. Key words "winter" and "C2" or "C4".

I have a C2 and while it rarely sees snow, it HAS seen it a few times, as well as a lot of rain. I always wash the car after a drive like that so I usually add an additional half hour to whatever it is I'm about to do...
As far as the driving, I think even the C2 does well with performance winter tires on. Currently I have Dunlop Winter Sport M3's mounted on the C2, but in the rough weather I usually try to drive my Evo with Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22's mounted.

The Pirelli 240's that NotTwinTurboYet mentioned are also good winter tires though. In my opinion, it's all about the winter tires. You MUST have that high silica compound to do well with rear-wheel drive in the winter. If you combine winter tires with all-wheel-drive, you will easily do better on a snowy road than most SUVs will.

A few weeks ago, I actually drove around a Ford Expedition in my Evo after a huge snowstorm here that dumped a couple feet of snow. Since both he and I had AWD (not to mention his ground clearance advantage), I think it was definitely the winter tires on my Evo that allowed me to keep going. You have to have that grip or it's like running on a wet football field with basketball shoes.

Johnny G Pipe

There's been quite a bit recently on this..looks like another chance for me to post the (bleak!) video file of my car refusing to lose traction - on 60% worn Toyo Proxes tyres.
I've since had a much sunnier and snowier day's boarding at that place, BTW!

http://media.putfile.com/964-C4-Snow

frankvan

http://www.porsche964.co.uk/rev_rep/rreports/bk1.htm

Road report from Anchorage, Alaska - probably the northernmost 911 report you'll find! He talks about driving inthe snow and ice. He also uses Nokian Hakkepelita's which coincidentally are the same tires I use in the winter (mounted on my old d90's)
the biggest concern I have is the uncontrolled understeer. On ice it can plow quite easily and from experience so far, braking (which works in other cars that understeer!) has no effect on correcting it! The only solution I've found is to apply slight throttle - I think that enables the C4's PDAS to kick in (green light on dash - but that's a seperate thread) - these cars are definitely different.

Other concern is the fact that the front end is so low down that all the s**t that the pickup trucks throw up lands on my windshield. Not very pretty. (Pickups make up about 50% of the vehicles in Alberta!).

Note the dirtiness in pic 2 - the car was only washed 2 days prior to that!

dfinnegan

I run Nokian RSI's and am very happy with the performance of my C4. I've been back and forth between NY and MA all winter and have been through three pretty nasty snow storms. Each time the car performed very well. I'm quite certain that the snow tires make a big difference.

Cheers,
Dave

splattergasted

I live in hilly / snow Pittsburgh. I use my C4 as an alternating daily driver (probably 2-3 days / week) and commute 25 miles each way.

Last fall, I was trying to squeeze every last millimeter of tread from a set of summer p-zeros and I got caught in a surprise snowstorm the day before Thanksgiving. Knowing the useful life of the PZ's was up, I was very nervous coming home from work.

My fear soon left me....with balding summer tires and in 5+ inches of snow, I was climing hills like a Humvee. I didn't take any chances going down hill (EXTREMELY SLOW); starting from stop and / or climbing hills was not an issue at all.

It handled so well, I actually thought my PDAS light was burned out. I gunned it a bit coming from a stopsign just to see if the light worked and / or the roads were actually as slick as the snow conditions would indicate (it worked and they were).

In short, my '93 C4 handled every bit as well as any 4wd I've ever owned. Since I've swapped out the PZ's for the winters, the snow gods have been tame and haven't had a chance to re-test. As mentioned above, the only thing the C4 is lacking is ground clearance.

That night I was absolutely convinced the C4 was the right purchase for me and I would have no hesitation recommending the C4 as a daily driver in all but the most extreme conditions (where the snow is above the door handles). I don't even consider 1-2 inches as having snowed. Have fun making fresh tracks in 4-5" and enjoy the stares!

frankvan

If you need ground clearance for deep snow consider the mod on the right...(although it was designed for the desert)

garrett376

Looks like someone took the passenger side mirror off that 959 street version!

dfinnegan

Yeah, and the passenger seat, too!

garrett376

yes... I didn't notice that one!

f11

frankvan, it looks like I have the cabriolet version of your car, right down to the wheels. I just picked up a '91 964 C4 cab in "linen" (some call it "champagne", but I call it "silver"). Unless, of course, your's is white under that dirt.

I'm in Edmonton, so I was interested in your comments on the 964 in winter. I bought it with the idea that I could use it as a daily driver all through the year, except for the worst of snow storms (really deep snow) or REALLY cold. Your report suggests I made the right choice.

Are you part of the Polar Region p-club?
Rod

tobago Bob

I commute everyday 29.3 miles in winter conditions here in tahoe. My 1990 C4 hauls serious a** in the snow of up to about 6" ice is no issue either.
The price I pay is washing her down EVERY time I take her out. ( takes about 20 minutes) And that's on street tires!

Tobago Bob

1990 C4 Slate Grey Eibachs Bilsteins chipped and lots of other repairs and mods...

hawk911

959; the ultimate winter driver!