Originally Posted by NineMeister

OK guys, I know exactly where you are coming from, but why aren't you pointing your question at Porsche instead of me? Should you not be asking them why they have spent millions of Euros developing the high hp n/a GT3/R/RS/RSR engines when they could have just fitted a low boost GT2 engine and saved the expense?

I cannot vouch for the USA, but in the UK and Europe the GT3 is one of the most popular trackday cars around and not one of their owners would exchange their's for a GT2 even if you paid them, so I guess that I am not alone in thinking that high hp n/a engines are the most rewarding to drive on the track. However the core answer that Porsche would give is the same as mine earlier in the thread, Porsche need a high hp n/a engine for racing, and it is this same demand that has led us to build the 9m 4.0 engine.

But, as with Porsche, the 9m race engine developments can be translated onto road cars without having to go the whole hog. So in a similar way in that you can drive to the shops with your 380bhp GT3 rather than a 490bhp RSR engine, by just fitting the 9m heads and cams you can pop to the mart in a 350bhp 993 and still return 30mpg (which is something you will never do if you have a 930 engine in the back).

We all have to accept that there are alternative approaches to any requirement but as ever guys, each to there own I guess.

Originally Posted by pcar964

Not to speak for others, but I know myself and at least two others here are looking for a way to get some serious power gains (at least 350bhp) in our 964/993s without spending too much. I realize this might be a pipe dream, which is why I'm considering all options including dropping an old 930 motor in there.

I think what you guys are doing at Ninemeister is awesome, and I wish more people were as skilled and innovative as you guys in the Porsche aftermarket. Maybe if these kits became more popular/mainstream, the prices would be more in line with the average Joe's budget.

Forgive me if you've already covered this, but I didn't find it - what would the 350bhp kit cost for a 3.6? You mentioned heads and cams, is that all it takes?

Originally Posted by NineMeister

Thanks for the encouragement.

The 993 engine conversion is covered pretty comprehensively in this post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243898

We are currently offering the head/cam/spring kit package at £5995 for the 964, 993 & 993RS engines.
To answer your specific question to achieve this power with the 993 the total cost of the fitted package including the 100 cell (N-GT style) cats, misc parts (gaskets, oil, etc) and the labour to screw it all together is just over £10k + taxes.
The 964 conversion is complicated by the fact that the standard engine management system will not support this hp without modifications, our recommendation would be to convert to Motec but this is not the only solution to getting more fuel into the engine.

Originally Posted by Red rooster

Colin,
The 993 Motronic M2.1.1 will support 350bhp but the 964 M2.1 wont ??
I would have thought that both were over the limit for fuel availability so a set of injectors and a re-map would be the fix ? or is air flow measurement the problem - flap versus Hot Film ?

Originally Posted by pcar964

I assume that a somewhat competent DIY mechanic could install the parts themselves, and have you guys do the custom tuning afterwards? Also I'm guessing that cat bypasses could be used in place of the 100 cell cats...

Would this kit produce a more flat torque curve, or is it more peaky?

Originally Posted by NineMeister

Cooling a 450bhp n/a engine is technically easier to achieve than a 450bhp turbo, so since Porsche sanctioned a 450bhp option for the 993TT and GT2 there is absolutely no issue with heat at this power level.

Originally Posted by Red rooster

Colin,
Can I confirm that my Euro 993 non vario motor which makes 274 bhp right now will make a measured 350 bhp if I fit your heads and cams ?
Are there any other parts needed?

Have you got a timing/fuelling specification to ensure correct mapping ?

Originally Posted by viperbob

Yes, but the Turbo S used an additional small oil cooler in the front bumper, and the GT2 used a larger oil cooler in place of the AC condensor in the left front of the car. I don't see this priced into your offerings. Is it already included?

Originally Posted by NineMeister

I have a 95 993 in the workshop now that is having the first NVR conversion with heads, cams & cats. The ecu will be remapped on completion, so pretty soon we will have the answers to both questions. I will post the result on the 993 board for obvious reasons, so keep your eye open.

Originally Posted by Caveman

.... and said "if my car needs a top-end rebuild in five to ten years I'd like to do this cool upgrade"! I can see I'm going to have to lay the ground work very carefully for this one....