Trio

I am in the market for a 964 C4. What year should I be looking at - I am interested in knowing any differences in maintenance issues, power/torque, or other attribute differences among the model years. Any chronic or common problems to look out for? My only P-car has been a 968, so any advice on the 964 would be appreciated.

shesminetoo

Ave,

As always buy the latest good one you can afford. Rule of thumb though, post '92 had most of the issues sorted. If you search this forum you'll find plenty on the issues some of the earlier cars have had.

Horsepower didn't change over the 964 model years as far as I know. They were all about 250hp. They are slightly more expensive to maintain than earlier and later models due to twin plug set-up and valve clearances that have to be set manually.

Most importantly, have proper pre-purchase inspection carried out by mechanic that knows these cars.

Check for oil leaks. Some sweating not a problem but heavier leaks can be costly to fix.

That's my 2 cents worth.....

Frans

Bill Gregory

If you haven't already, you may want to read the 964 FAQ here.

Jay H

I agree that 964's cost more to maintain than the earlier cars since they are more complex and really are the first large scale redesign of the 911 since it's inception in the early '60's.

However, as the 993 ages, that model line up seems to have it's own set of issues as well and don't seem to be the completely bulletproof cars that we all thought they were. So, yes, the 964 still needs it's valves adjusted and you don't need that maintenance on 993's, but there are plenty of other issues with the 993 series to spend your money on. Even the newest 993 is now approaching 8 years old, so age takes it's toll too.

All in all, both the 964 and 993 lines are very robust cars for being high performance cars capable of track work or going to the grocery store right off the showroom floor.

As for the year to year performance differences (as mentioned above by shesminetoo), Porsche never published changes in hp or torque ratings from the early 964's to the later 964's. HP is 247 and torque is 228 from the '89 C4 to the '94 C4.

Porsche updated the head to cylinder area to correct the leaking issue that is found on early cars in late 1991. This leak is relatively rare on early cars, but should be checked for in any 964 you are considering during the PPI.

Porsche switched to a more robust dual mass flywheel in late 1992 and finally added a vent kit to the distributor in 1993.

Rust can be present on these cars since they are getting older now. Electrical systems are complex and need to be checked thoroughly, but overall they are robust systems. Accessories need to be working or if they don't work, you need to factor in the cost of repair in your budget or purchase price. Fit and finish on the 964 series is exceptional and materials are of very high quality (as you would find on a 968 of the same vintage). These were well assembled cars and had a lot of hand assembling done.

The C4 has a more complicated AWD/ABS system than the C2's and require a bit more time to do a proper brake fluid flush (and also require a Bosch specific tool [the Hammer] to help with this fluid change).

All the usual used car issues need to be addressed when looking for a used 964; tires, brakes, suspension, shocks, etc. The dual distributor belt should be changed every 5 years or 50,000 miles for good piece of mind. This belt can last longer, but if the belt fails and is left unrepaired, it can cause loss of performance and possible engine damage.

Some people bash the early 964's (1989 to 1991) as problematic cars, but I'd take a nice condition '89 C4 over a beat up '94 C4. Many of the early cars have their issues sorted out by now by prior owners. All of the 964 shortcomings can be fixed with permanant and reliable repairs.

Mileage can be deceiving. There are many high mileage 964's running around that are in great shape. Low mileage 'queens' can have their own set of problems just from sitting and age. A properly maintaned 964 seems to be capable of running well over 100,000 miles (and some are running strong into the 200k range) without major work being needed.

Hppe this helps and Good Luck,


Jay
90 964

Michael Delaney

If you can find a 1994 C4 you will also get a normally aspirated wide body. Of course the price will reflect this. I've had two 964's and feel the carping about the problems is not nearly as serious as it sounds. These cars are old enough now to have exposed their weaknesses and they are not all that bad. Take your time and find a good one and you will love it.

Marc Shaw

I don't have much else to add to what has already been wisely told to you except to go buy Adrian Streather's excellent book on the 964 and read it cover-to-cover a few times.

It will answer many of your questions and those that it does not, someone here likely can.

Marc

Trio

Gentlemen:
This is extremely helpful advice. As a novice to the 964, I appreciate the jump-start this gives me in doing more research. Searching the forum is helpful when looking for specific issues, but for general buying advice I think the replies to this post help focus my efforts. Thanks again.

Since I'm here ... Anyone with a C4 for sale?

DustinTarditi

I got my 74 Targa, 2003 MINI Cooper S and my 90 C4 from Larry at http://www.motorcarinvestments.com/ - very good guy to deal with.

He's got these right now:
1991 C4 Cab http://www.motorcarinvestments.com/c...php?car_id=449
I drove this one - drives great, looks very good, too... the inside of the top has a few small tears, but overall the car is in great condition for the age.
1991 C2 Cab http://www.motorcarinvestments.com/c...php?car_id=475
I haven't driven this one - car is in OK shape, top needs some attention, but it might make a good driver car.

Need to check with him though, since the website doesn't always reflect his inventory 100% (my C4 is still listed for instance).

I don't get a bird-dog or anything - just recommending a dealer from very positive personal experience.

Bob Krantz

Two more details about the C4 vintage: the first year (1989) has both the traditional (i.e. non-dual mass) flywheel, and classic (i.e. non-air bag) steering wheel. The latter makes changing to after-market wheels much easier and cheaper, presuming you prefer not to have air bags.
Bob K
1989 C4