nadster14

I have always dreamed of owning a Targa. Finally I am at the stage in my life where I may be able to purchase. I have been gathering information on the purchase of a 911/964 in the 20-30K price range, and have really enjoyed the wealth of information on this site.

This is my first purchase of a Porsche, not withstanding an early mistake on the purchase of a 911T/E about about 20 years ago that I did not check out sufficiently and had to immediately sell due severe rust problems.

My question... how much should I expect to spend on annual maintenance cost if I purchase a mechanically sound vehicle? This would be a daily driver, about 35 miles round trip per day.

Also, by the responses that I have seen, are maintenance issues on the 911/964 significantly more frequent than other roadster alternatives,is it that 911 fans take more pride in maintaining thier vehicles, or is it just the fact that these cars are around 10 years old?

Lastly, How long would one expect a well maintanied 3.2 or 3.6 engine to last?

I would appreciate any insight you might have to share.

Barry null

Drew_K

I would base it on mileage. Figure about $600-800 for the 15K mile services; $150 for oil changes in between the 15K services; flush brake fluid every 2 years for about $150; replace gearbox fluid every 30K miles for about $150.

Then there are the normal consumables, mainly tires and brakes.

That's really about if the car is running well. However, I would strongly recommend setting some money aside just in case. New clutches or gearbox rebuilds, for example, are not cheap, and that's the risk you run when owning a high end sports car.

A problem that I've heard about with a few 964's is an erratic idle after a hot restart. If you test drive a 964, I would recommend letting it sit for a while after you drive it (chat with the seller, etc.), then ask to restart the car and observe whether the idle is steady. Granted, it will vary a little, but it shouldn't bounce up and down more than a few hundred rpm.

Also, my 964 runs very well, but the idle always bounces up and down a little after a hot restart until it's driven for a few seconds. So I wouldn't walk away from a car that has an erratic idle, but I think it's something worth observing. I've heard that a few 964 owners have been quite frustrated with this problem. This is NOT a common problem though.

Drew
92 C2 Coupe

Randall G.

Hi Barry,

I think it might have been Drew--I've forgotten exactly who--that has written in the past to expect about $150/month in maintenance for a 964. I did think that was kinda' high, until I went through all my receipts (from the past 9 years) last weekend and summarized them on my computer. I now believe that number to be a pretty good one for combined scheduled & unscheduled maintenance. Maybe even a bit low. This assumes that nothing catastrophic happens to your engine, and that you don't do any of the maintenance yourself.

As for 911s costing more to maintain then other roadster alternatives, well, I think that certainly would be true if comparing it to certain Japanese sports cars. For example, a Miata or S2000. My wife's Miata hasn't had a thing go wrong in two years of ownership--other than having to replace the rear window. The S2000 gets an "Exceptional" rating from Consumer Reports (just like a Honda Civic), so I assume it's pretty bulletproof (though it's seems too early to say for sure). On the other hand, the last generation RX-7s blow engines left and right. I've also read that the Mitsubishi 3000GT is costly to maintain. I don't believe any German sports/sporty car is super-cheap to maintain. That is, I can't think of any German car that has a reputation for reliability approaching that of a Toyota Camry.

Having said all that, when you mentioned roadster alternatives, did you have any specific models in mind?

Drew_K

Randall, the $150 per month was just a guess-timate on my part. I've been keeping track of my expenses in a spreadsheet so I always know what my $$$ per month are. My number has been closer to $200 per month, but I've only owned my C2 for about a year and I include everything but gas and insurance as an expense. Your number is probably much more indicative of 964 ownership since you have 9 years of receipts. I suppose a weekend only car could cost as little as $50 per month, but I prefer to drive mine.

nadster14

Thanks to Drew and Randall for providing really helpful information. Randall, when I spoke of Roadster alternatives, the BMW Z3, the Honda S2000 or the Miata came to mind. The Miata is a little small. Of course, the new Corvettes (1997 on)and the Mercedes SL560 are cruiser alternatives. However, a 911/964 Targa is the car I have always dreamed of owning.

Thanks for your help!

Randall G.

Hey Drew,

Based on my 9 years worth of receipts, I'd say your $150 guess-timate is pretty accurate. As is your current trend of $200/month. So ... I would say $150-$200/month for a car that is driven every day. For example, I've put 96k miles on my car in 9 years of ownership. Definitely not a garage queen ... it gets driven.

The $150-$200/month does not reflect the cost of recovering from my spun rod bearing at 100k miles, which lead to the 993 engine/trans installed in my car. That would really skew the numbers. Anyway, I'm the only person I know of that's had a rod bearing spin on a 964 engine, so I think it's fair to write it off as bad luck .

As you say suggest Drew, I'm sure the per-month cost for owning a 964 (or any car) would be much lower for a weekend-only car.

Barry ... I think a Miata is about as low-cost sportscar you can buy. I do love driving my wife's Miata, but it's no substitute for the P-car whatsoever. Among other things, just doesn't have the juice. Besides, the way I see it .... I have the disposable income, you only live once--can't take your money to the grave--so I'm willing to spend the money to own the P-car.

Don't know a lot about the cost of owning a Z3. While it seems like a major service should be less expensive, it's still German. So, it can't be too cheap to own. I do know that the M engines have some weakness's that need to be managed. As I recall (someone fell free to step in here), head gaskets and timing belts.

nadster14

I needed some validation that the 911/964 was a car that I could drive daily (easy 35 mile roundtrip) and it wouldn't be constantly breaking down or going into the shop.
Spending around $150-$200 a month average on maintenance sounds higher than some other cars, notably the Miata, (although who knows as related to a BMW or compared to other 10 year old cars). Its just something, I now know I will need to budget for.

The thrill of driving a 911/964 and the appreciation (or lack of depreciation) is certainly worth something.

Riccardo

Nadster,

I really think your "alternative roadsters" are not very real options to a 964. I mean, come on, comparing a former supercar to a shopping trolley Miata?!! And how about the Z3, the typical hairdresser's car? As for the Merc, yes its also very nice, but something completely different, its more of a luxury car, not a rugged little sportscar like the 964. Can't comment on the Corvette, though personally I do not rate it much (but that is just because I am European and have a different opinion on what a sportscar is).

Ok, I am biased towards European cars, I do think they are great and prefer them to most other cars made anywhere else (apart from your American pick up trucks, I love those!). As for Japanese cars, they are just copies of European cars (albeit improved in some aspects, but worse in the personality department). Just look at the Miata, a spot on copy of the 60's Lotus Elan.

Having just started 964 ownership (my first Porsche) I can say that I, for one, like to spend whatever money is needed to keep the car in the best condition possible. Its like, "ok, need new tyres, so what are the best ones available, alright, lets put those on then". This is not to say that all Porsche owners are like that. You should try and buy from owners which cared (or didn't care but are rich and did not cut corners).

Do also consider that the 964 will be older than equivalent price range Z3s and other such like, hence some things will be deteriorating because of age. For example, my wishbone bushes were severely craked and had to replace both entire wishbones. £400 bill (thats british pounds, not dollars!)

Finally, you do have to consider the emotional factor as well. You can buy a reliable japanese thingy, but you may feel like hitting yourself every time a 964 drives by. Its just not the same thing. However, if its just the open top you are after maybe Porsche ownership is not the right thing for you. There are other newer and very good cars out there which will not need the amount of attention you should dedicate to a 964.

Adrian

Dear Riccardo,
Would you be so kind (privately if you wish) to write out your maintenance expenses for me. Randall sent me his, magnificent job. I have done mine. I need one set from the UK and I need another set from say Australia, maybe somewhere else in Asia and a couple more from the USA.
I have a chapter called maintenance costs and currently this stars myself and Randall. Anybody else who is willing to write down their expenses via their receipts, it is greatly appreciated,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Riccardo

Being sent via fax....

nadster14

Riccardo,
You are absolutely right. Settling for something else at the thought of saving a few bucks defeats the purpose of buying what you really want. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Barry