PJ911C2

Hello everyone,

I found there is a small advertisement in the February Excellence magazine said that they provide a performance refrigerant called Duracool 12a and is 35% cooler than 134a, also mentioned that it requires no new dryer/oil change and no license is needed when purchasing. Is this a new high efficiency refrigerant better than 134a or R12 as advertised? Anyone ever tried this before and willing to share the experience?

<a href="http://www.duracoolusa.com" target="_blank">http://www.duracoolusa.com</a>

Regards,

914und993

I don't know what refrigerant Duracool actually sells, but there are a number of R12 and R134a substitutes with even higher efficiency than R12.

Actually, propane/butane mixtures can be direct replacements for R12 and are higher efficiency, but they aren't DOT approved.

Here is one alternative: <a href="http://www.autofrost.com/" target="_blank">Autofrost</a> concocted by a brilliant chemist who also holds what is probably the world record for getting a charcoal fire started (does liquid oxygen mean anything to you?)

I don't advocate any of these to you, but it is a wide-open subject!

P.S. If you are interested in the fastest way to start your charcoal grill, peruse this: <a href="http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/~ghg/" target="_blank">George Goble</a>

Chip

Randall G.

Hey PJ,

You'll likely get lots of varying opinions on this subject. That said, if you search through the archives, you'll find lots of 964 owners that have had good luck with R-134a. Including myself--works per the factory specs for a R-134a equipped 964 (93+) and 993. Easy to find years from now, anyone can handle it. Also, you may have trouble down the road getting someone to recapture a specialty/one-off refrigerant such as duracool.

Randall G.

redfox

I sell duracool and have for almost 8 years. I'm not trying to talk anyone into using duracool, but I do try to warn as many people as possible about changing to 134a. Most people never read the warnings on the can itself. It states in the fine print on the cans [death may occur without warning]. They are serious. There have been tests that have proven how toxic 134a is. What most people do not realise is that 134a is not to come in contact with aluminum for any reason. What is your a/c system made of? Mine is made of aluminum. Another thing most people do not know is that 143a is flammable. It burns at 12500 degrees. That is five times hotter than gasoline. Have you seen any 134a victims on the side of the interstate? I have and I have the pictures to prove it. A 134a car will usually be totally destoyed inside and out. If you look along the sides of the interstate you will see spots where the asphalt is actually melted. this was probably a134a car fire.As you can probably tell I have had these discussions for many years. More people are starting to believe me after looking at all the evidence.

redfox

Something I forgot to mention, duracool is DOT approved. It is not approved by the EPA to replace r12, but they admit it is acceptable to replace 134a or a system that has had the fittings changed.

AK

Did you know that 134a is called tetrafluoroethane? This is what is in pressurized air dusters, key board cleaner, these days.

redfox

Tetrafluoroethane has also been put into many asthma inhalers as a propellant. Isn't that strange when they have already stated that it may cause death without warning.

JimBob Jumpback

hi bubba redfox. wit a name like dat, im surz you be a good bubba to. welcum to da rennlisty fren. bubba JimBob red wut yu ben writin abut r-134a catchin on fires und stuff. soz i wuz drivin my automubil und itz bein hot in da soth i be runnin da airr condichiner. I dun see smoke und fire comin frum under da automubil und I be thinkin dat my r-134a was unfire just like yu sez. old JimBob stopps at da jerky stand und gots outta da automubil. i was feeling mitty betta wen i fund dat my r-134a wunt on fire but dat the kloz hangur holdin up da muflur had *** lose und bubba JimBobs muflur wuz draggin und da grund und stuff.

itz good ta kno dat a smartz bubba lik redfox be noin more dan all them yankee enguneers frum furd and GM.

Yer Fren,

JimBob

ckkrause

I also have been exploring using another of the propane/butane mixes called Freeze 12and I'm sold. It is approved for replacement of R134a, but not R12. So, I have arranged for a local AC repair shop to pull what's left of the R12 out of my system, check for leaks, and draw a proper vacuum. I will then add the Freeze 12 myself. I'm waiting until it warms up in April or so to do this and I'll then report back.

-CKKrause

JW in Texas

Freeze12 works great! I have been using it in my '90 for the last 2 years. It keeps me cool down here in Texas in the dead of Summer. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

redfox

Freeze 12 is 80 percent 134a. If you will read on the back of the can at the bottom it also reads [may cause death without warning]. The engineers at Ford and GM knew exactly what they were doing, 134a has a strong chemical reaction with aluminum. This is called designed obsolescence. How many of you have had to replace the compressors or the evaporators in 134a systems already? Replacing evaporators was almost unheard of on R12 systems. Back to the car fires. How many of you have had a carburetor catch on fire? This would usually burn a spot on the hood about the size of a dinner plate and it stopped. People now say it is because of fuel injection, but a fuel injection system has less fuel under the hood than a carbureated system. So why are these cars burning to the ground? As soon as the electrical system shorts out the fuel pump in the tank shuts down.

STLPCA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by redfox:
<strong>The engineers at Ford and GM knew exactly what they were doing, 134a has a strong chemical reaction with aluminum. This is called designed obsolescence.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Charles
I'm fascinated. If you are correct, seems like there should be a NHTSA investigation, state initiated consumer fraud claims against the manufacturers, & mega buck private class actions. Do you have any objective test reports, investigative reports or similar authoritative support you can point me to. I'm interested in following up, if your assertions are supportable. TIA for what I'm sure will be a wealth of objective data on this important issue.

redfox

Most of the government offices will ignore anything to do with 134a. I talked with a supervisor at cape canaveral in 1997 to offer them to try our product.He refused and explained to me that they had to use a Dupont product for reasons he could not explain. He did tell me that they did not change any systems over to 134a after they checked into it. They changed to another Dupont product MP39. At the time I couldn't understand why they wouldn't use 134a. Now I know why. I have talked to many fire consultants, fire engineers, fire investigators, reporters, TV stations and newspapers after you mention Dupont they don't want to talk any more. Several years ago I had no idea how much power Dupont had, now I know. There is one fire investigator in Grants Pass OR. That is looking into my findings and has put it on the web. His name is Chris Bloom. If you have any questions you can call me toll free at 866 482 8795. This business has cost me practically everthing, so don't say I'm doing this to try to make money. If you doubt what I'm saying go and look at Ford's MSDS on 134a. It states on the second page [ Contact with certain metals aluminum, magnesium, sodium, potassium and calcium may cause violent reaction or explosion]. Most MSDS sheets are very hard to understand, but this information is in all that I have seen. You can call me and I will fax you one. Also any amount over 1000 parts per million is considered an overexposure. 134a attacks the heart, lungs, central nervous system, skin and developing fetuses. I know of many people who have been put in the hospital or died from contact with 134a [heart attack, stroke, respiratory failure]I have talked with people who had family members die in these car fires. I also have pictures and evidence to back up what I am saying.

Jim Michaels

redfox: Thanks for not trying to talk anyone into using duracool.

JimBob: That was a scary 134a story. You could have gotten flamed! Welcome back and good choice.