964 FAQ?
07-17-2001, 07:37 AM
#16
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G/Day Bob,
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately many of the fixes on the 964 require some complex answers. Especially in the Electronics and Electrical systems. This takes us into areas which can become somewhat risky because Porsche data has to be used.
"Troubleshooting cannot be vague" as many FAQ pages are. Engine Problems "Use Bosch 9288 Tester" is no help to anyone. Totally and 100% correct by the way but not much help.
There is no point having a FAQ page without the facts. I ensure I can provide as much info privately as I can. However I would not put this out in public.
Bill makes the point about one question, 20 different answers. He is correct. I only know of a couple of people who have had their C4s apart, lying on the ground in front of them, working out how things really work. I am one of them and I learn new things almost everyday. Differences in models also complicates things. The 1989 C4 is somewhat different to the 1990 model. There are two different 1991 versions, plus add in various countries and confusion reigns.
A FAQ web site must be accurate and concise. It is in trying to obtain this standard that one has to be very careful. This is why I am seeking permission from Porsche and intend to write the book,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: The other small problem with FAQ pages, in fact any reference to Porsches. People are very intolerant and expect a lot for free. Silly buggers like me and others, spend the money to get their 911s fixed, purchase the data etc etc and then people line up to get all this for free. Most of us try hard to be fair and very liberal in our exchange of information but I have seen the odd guestbook entries related to FAQ on others web sites where people are complaining that they are not being helped enough. I have had people complain to me directly when I said I would not photocopy the Maintenance Manual for them and send it to them. All these things need to be considered, especially by the person putting their name to the site webmaster.
I support within reason any effort to help people help themselves. I would be happy to contribute what I can to a FAQ and will do so.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately many of the fixes on the 964 require some complex answers. Especially in the Electronics and Electrical systems. This takes us into areas which can become somewhat risky because Porsche data has to be used.
"Troubleshooting cannot be vague" as many FAQ pages are. Engine Problems "Use Bosch 9288 Tester" is no help to anyone. Totally and 100% correct by the way but not much help.
There is no point having a FAQ page without the facts. I ensure I can provide as much info privately as I can. However I would not put this out in public.
Bill makes the point about one question, 20 different answers. He is correct. I only know of a couple of people who have had their C4s apart, lying on the ground in front of them, working out how things really work. I am one of them and I learn new things almost everyday. Differences in models also complicates things. The 1989 C4 is somewhat different to the 1990 model. There are two different 1991 versions, plus add in various countries and confusion reigns.
A FAQ web site must be accurate and concise. It is in trying to obtain this standard that one has to be very careful. This is why I am seeking permission from Porsche and intend to write the book,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: The other small problem with FAQ pages, in fact any reference to Porsches. People are very intolerant and expect a lot for free. Silly buggers like me and others, spend the money to get their 911s fixed, purchase the data etc etc and then people line up to get all this for free. Most of us try hard to be fair and very liberal in our exchange of information but I have seen the odd guestbook entries related to FAQ on others web sites where people are complaining that they are not being helped enough. I have had people complain to me directly when I said I would not photocopy the Maintenance Manual for them and send it to them. All these things need to be considered, especially by the person putting their name to the site webmaster.
I support within reason any effort to help people help themselves. I would be happy to contribute what I can to a FAQ and will do so.
07-17-2001, 10:03 AM
#17
Adrian,
I hope you have luck in getting the go ahead for your book. I will be first in line! I will always try to solve/fix a problem myself first. I am a firm believer in trying to understand how thing work and work from that. Obviously I know my limitations, but for me the fun is in the learning and also knowing when to leave it to the experts.
Good luck with the book.
Richard.
I hope you have luck in getting the go ahead for your book. I will be first in line! I will always try to solve/fix a problem myself first. I am a firm believer in trying to understand how thing work and work from that. Obviously I know my limitations, but for me the fun is in the learning and also knowing when to leave it to the experts.
Good luck with the book.
Richard.
07-17-2001, 10:38 AM
#18
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Thanks Richard,
I agree entirely. Most of my fun is learning and fixing my C4. Putting it all into a book I hope will relieve me of the stress of answering the same questions time and time again. I will be able to say, "read my book",
Ciao,
Adrian.
I agree entirely. Most of my fun is learning and fixing my C4. Putting it all into a book I hope will relieve me of the stress of answering the same questions time and time again. I will be able to say, "read my book",
Ciao,
Adrian.
07-17-2001, 11:39 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice about copyright/trademark issues. I'm actually very aware of this since, coincidentally, I'm an intellectual property attorney and deal with these issues every day. I mainly deal with patents, but I'm pretty familiar with copyright and trademark law, and I have quick reference to the things I don't know. I will be writing carefully because I don't want to step on anyone else's toes, and I also fully intend to give credit where it's due by citing my sources.
Regarding troubleshooting, I'm strongly leaning towards leaving this section out because it would be too long and is outside the scope of a typical FAQ. Plus, I'm not qualified to write it. Perhaps someone else (Bill?) can tackle this if they choose.
I've emailed a preliminary list of topics to those who expressed an interest in helping out. If you haven't received this and want to help, please email me (check my profile).
Please keep in mind that this will be a relatively short FAQ, not a 964 book. Thanks for all the input!
Drew
Regarding troubleshooting, I'm strongly leaning towards leaving this section out because it would be too long and is outside the scope of a typical FAQ. Plus, I'm not qualified to write it. Perhaps someone else (Bill?) can tackle this if they choose.
I've emailed a preliminary list of topics to those who expressed an interest in helping out. If you haven't received this and want to help, please email me (check my profile).
Please keep in mind that this will be a relatively short FAQ, not a 964 book. Thanks for all the input!
Drew
07-17-2001, 01:23 PM
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Been sitting on the sidelines watching this thread develop with interest.
I have also been thinking about a FAQ section on my site, John's 964 Web, and also a self-generated FAQ database on my Porsche 964 SmartGroup.
However, I have decided against both due complexity and accuracy issues.
My approach on my site will be to publish technical solutions to problems and issues that I have a recent personal experience of. I will also only link to other sites where I have validated their directly experienced problems/solutions.
For further answers I will encourage searching the archives of Lists such as this and the Smartgroup and will await Adrian's book with much anticipation.
I would be pleased to help on FAQ creation and validation and would be happy to grow my sites technical pages with your help. I can take as much email data to review as anyone can mail me and would be happy to publish validated answers on my site - a few at a time.
Keep in touch,
John
I have also been thinking about a FAQ section on my site, John's 964 Web, and also a self-generated FAQ database on my Porsche 964 SmartGroup.
However, I have decided against both due complexity and accuracy issues.
My approach on my site will be to publish technical solutions to problems and issues that I have a recent personal experience of. I will also only link to other sites where I have validated their directly experienced problems/solutions.
For further answers I will encourage searching the archives of Lists such as this and the Smartgroup and will await Adrian's book with much anticipation.
I would be pleased to help on FAQ creation and validation and would be happy to grow my sites technical pages with your help. I can take as much email data to review as anyone can mail me and would be happy to publish validated answers on my site - a few at a time.
Keep in touch,
John
07-18-2001, 03:58 AM
#21
Drew:
My idea of a "Troubleshooting the 964" was not intended to be an online manual with gigabytes of step by step photos and detailed descriptions of components. As I said, I was considering doing this myself. I DO have hundreds of megabytes of e-mails, web posts, etc., but I would need to sort through these, edit them, segregate the garbage from the facts, and look for consistency between one occurance and another.
This would tackle COMMON problems, not something like overhauling the transaxle. A good example would be a recent thread on Rennlist's e-mail list where a guy was having problems with ABS warning lights. It turned out his ABS pump was shot, but other possible causes were also listed (connectors, battery charge level, etc). All were valid. My goal would be to list the most common and VERIFIED problems and solutions, probably in nothing more than simple text. This would not be an online manual or a replacement for a manual...just a guide of common things that go wrong with the cars. I would see it as more of a layman's guide to what they can do to troubleshoot there cars.
Actually, putting a manual online would certainly be fun and it would be a good learning experience, but I think this, at least for me, would be too time consuming not to mention cost prohibative (I'd have to pay for online storage and bandwidth).
What do you think now?
Bill Wagner
'91 C4
My idea of a "Troubleshooting the 964" was not intended to be an online manual with gigabytes of step by step photos and detailed descriptions of components. As I said, I was considering doing this myself. I DO have hundreds of megabytes of e-mails, web posts, etc., but I would need to sort through these, edit them, segregate the garbage from the facts, and look for consistency between one occurance and another.
This would tackle COMMON problems, not something like overhauling the transaxle. A good example would be a recent thread on Rennlist's e-mail list where a guy was having problems with ABS warning lights. It turned out his ABS pump was shot, but other possible causes were also listed (connectors, battery charge level, etc). All were valid. My goal would be to list the most common and VERIFIED problems and solutions, probably in nothing more than simple text. This would not be an online manual or a replacement for a manual...just a guide of common things that go wrong with the cars. I would see it as more of a layman's guide to what they can do to troubleshoot there cars.
Actually, putting a manual online would certainly be fun and it would be a good learning experience, but I think this, at least for me, would be too time consuming not to mention cost prohibative (I'd have to pay for online storage and bandwidth).
What do you think now?
Bill Wagner
'91 C4
07-18-2001, 12:03 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Bill:
Okay, I see what you mean by 'troubleshooting' now. So, for example, "Problem: Erratic idle after warm restart", followed by "Possible solutions/areas to check: transmission ground strap, low battery level, oxygen sensors.....etc".
Something like this (if this is what you mean) would be short and useful, assuming we can identify the common problems and common solutions. That still leaves one problem though- I'm not really qualified to write this type of section.
Bill, it sounds like you're volunteering to write the troubleshooting section. If so, that would be great. I'll probably write the FAQ and leave a blank section for 'troubleshooting' or simply leave that section out for now. That way you can do it at your COMPLETE leisure and I'll just cut and paste it in (I realize this would be a low priority side project). I'm not even going to start writing until next month since I'm hammered with work and the next few weekends are busy.
-Drew
Okay, I see what you mean by 'troubleshooting' now. So, for example, "Problem: Erratic idle after warm restart", followed by "Possible solutions/areas to check: transmission ground strap, low battery level, oxygen sensors.....etc".
Something like this (if this is what you mean) would be short and useful, assuming we can identify the common problems and common solutions. That still leaves one problem though- I'm not really qualified to write this type of section.
Bill, it sounds like you're volunteering to write the troubleshooting section. If so, that would be great. I'll probably write the FAQ and leave a blank section for 'troubleshooting' or simply leave that section out for now. That way you can do it at your COMPLETE leisure and I'll just cut and paste it in (I realize this would be a low priority side project). I'm not even going to start writing until next month since I'm hammered with work and the next few weekends are busy.
-Drew
07-19-2001, 03:15 AM
#23
Drew:
It sounds like we've reached a gentlemens agreement
. That's exactly what I had in mind....something simple and useful for laymen.
Like you, I'm swamped, but this will make a nice "pet project" for me...and a good learning experience to boot.
Cheers!
Bill Wagner
It sounds like we've reached a gentlemens agreement
. That's exactly what I had in mind....something simple and useful for laymen.Like you, I'm swamped, but this will make a nice "pet project" for me...and a good learning experience to boot.
Cheers!
Bill Wagner
07-19-2001, 04:24 AM
#24
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Guys,
These troubleshooting charts already exist. Maybe this data used in a correct way would be of major time saving benefit,
Ciao,
Adrian
PS: To learn more please contact me privately.
These troubleshooting charts already exist. Maybe this data used in a correct way would be of major time saving benefit,
Ciao,
Adrian
PS: To learn more please contact me privately.
07-19-2001, 06:52 PM
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Adrian,
John and I certainly wouldn't know what you were talking about when it comes to people being intolerant and expecting a lot for free.
Free! Free! This website doesn't cost John and I anything! :-)
Sorry couldn't help myself...
-Jennifer
Adrian Wrote:
PS: The other small problem with FAQ pages, in fact any reference to Porsches. People are very intolerant and expect a lot for free. Silly buggers like me and others, spend the money to get their 911s fixed, purchase the data etc etc and then people line up to get all this for free. Most of us try hard to be fair and very liberal in our exchange of information but I have seen the odd guestbook entries related to FAQ on others web sites where people are complaining that they are not being helped enough. I have had people complain to me directly when I said I would not photocopy the Maintenance Manual for them and send it to them. All these things need to be considered, especially by the person putting their name to the site webmaster. I support within reason any effort to help people help themselves. I would be happy to contribute what I can to a FAQ and will do so.
John and I certainly wouldn't know what you were talking about when it comes to people being intolerant and expecting a lot for free.
Free! Free! This website doesn't cost John and I anything! :-)
Sorry couldn't help myself...
-Jennifer
Adrian Wrote:
PS: The other small problem with FAQ pages, in fact any reference to Porsches. People are very intolerant and expect a lot for free. Silly buggers like me and others, spend the money to get their 911s fixed, purchase the data etc etc and then people line up to get all this for free. Most of us try hard to be fair and very liberal in our exchange of information but I have seen the odd guestbook entries related to FAQ on others web sites where people are complaining that they are not being helped enough. I have had people complain to me directly when I said I would not photocopy the Maintenance Manual for them and send it to them. All these things need to be considered, especially by the person putting their name to the site webmaster. I support within reason any effort to help people help themselves. I would be happy to contribute what I can to a FAQ and will do so.
