Will the 993 Rear window fit the 964?
08-17-2005, 06:34 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
There was a thread some time ago in which someone said the black was paint. How about mineral spirits, deftly applied? If it's really paint, I'm thinking it might be worth a try...
08-18-2005, 02:45 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
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I dont think it is paint or at least it is baked on paint. I tried scraping it off with razors and even a screw driver and that stuff won't scratch. I also purchased a Dremel wire brush attachment to try this weekend, but I am not sure if that will get it off. I think trying to put in a pre 86 rear glass would be the easiest way, but I think I read that it is too small.
08-18-2005, 06:33 PM
#18
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It Don't Come Off!
Yes, I'm pretty sure the black surround is somehow fixed to the glass at time of manufacturing so that it bonds completely to the glass (you've seen the same thing around the entire edge of fixed rear/side windows on many newer Toyotas etc). Trying to remove it requires physical abrasion to the glass and leaves obvious damage. I stopped trying after I had progressed from a paint scraper (no effect) to a flat bladed screwdriver (no effect) to an Xacto knife (rough scratch marks that removed the black but left a ground glass surface behind.
So in the event that I have enough spare cash for new rear glass at some point, was the only source of non-3rd-brakelight glass in the UK or Europe and if so what is the part number?
Jim
So in the event that I have enough spare cash for new rear glass at some point, was the only source of non-3rd-brakelight glass in the UK or Europe and if so what is the part number?
Jim
08-21-2005, 01:39 AM
#22
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I think it is as easy as just pushing it out from the inside and to replace it use soap and a nylon string to pull it in.
I just need to know if the rear glass from a pre 86 will actually fit. I vaguely remember reading it is smaller, but not too sure.
I just need to know if the rear glass from a pre 86 will actually fit. I vaguely remember reading it is smaller, but not too sure.
08-21-2005, 05:33 AM
#23
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The rear glass is bonded (glued) into position, the same as the front windshield, at the factory.
If you can remove it as has been suggested, then it has removed post delivery and incorrectly installed.
Procedures for correct installation are found in the 964 Factory workshop manual.
It is common practice nowadays for the windows not to be correctly installed.
One installer in Scotland told me the bonding material was too expensive.
The result was a 928 with a rear end full of water.
Ciao,
Adrian.
If you can remove it as has been suggested, then it has removed post delivery and incorrectly installed.
Procedures for correct installation are found in the 964 Factory workshop manual.
It is common practice nowadays for the windows not to be correctly installed.
One installer in Scotland told me the bonding material was too expensive.
The result was a 928 with a rear end full of water.
Ciao,
Adrian.
08-21-2005, 06:57 AM
#24
I must say that I had both my rear and front glass replaced here in the UK over a year ago without the bonding glue/compound and there is no moisture in the car. In fact, there is even less condensation than there used to be, and you know how much it rains over here...
I used new seals all round. The point of the post is not to disagree with Adrian's post, but rather to inform that at least in the UK most fitters will *insist* that there is no glue to be used...and so far its been OK...
I used new seals all round. The point of the post is not to disagree with Adrian's post, but rather to inform that at least in the UK most fitters will *insist* that there is no glue to be used...and so far its been OK...
08-21-2005, 11:12 AM
#25
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This argument has been around and around before.
You have a group of people advocating doing the job incorrectly. That is fine each person can do what they want with their own car. It is also cheaper, not doing the work correctly because it is less labour intensive.
However those who consider cheap ineffective work also need to realise that:
The reduction in condensation issue is due to the fact that the windows now leak. Check behind the rear seats in the sound proofing.
There is often an increase in wind noise which many have reported on this forum in the past.
The lack of bonding will also allow moisture to become trapped in the metal work and cause RUST!
There is the factory method which takes longer or there is the cheap incorrect method which can cause long term damage to your 964.
You take your choice.
Whilst I do not always agree with Porsche, they do not develop repair procedures just for fun. They had 20 plus years experience with the 911 before they decided to bond the windshield and rear window of the 964. There was a very good reason (number actually) for doing this.
I recommend you insist that ALL maintenance carried out on your 964, is done properly.
Ciao,
Adrian.
You have a group of people advocating doing the job incorrectly. That is fine each person can do what they want with their own car. It is also cheaper, not doing the work correctly because it is less labour intensive.
However those who consider cheap ineffective work also need to realise that:
The reduction in condensation issue is due to the fact that the windows now leak. Check behind the rear seats in the sound proofing.
There is often an increase in wind noise which many have reported on this forum in the past.
The lack of bonding will also allow moisture to become trapped in the metal work and cause RUST!
There is the factory method which takes longer or there is the cheap incorrect method which can cause long term damage to your 964.
You take your choice.
Whilst I do not always agree with Porsche, they do not develop repair procedures just for fun. They had 20 plus years experience with the 911 before they decided to bond the windshield and rear window of the 964. There was a very good reason (number actually) for doing this.
I recommend you insist that ALL maintenance carried out on your 964, is done properly.
Ciao,
Adrian.
08-21-2005, 02:13 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
"Did you guys ever remove the rear glass - is it true it just pops out if you kick it out from inside?"
Yes , if you kick it , it will come out in many small bits . I've removed a few windows this way .
Its fast and easy but scary , when the glass pops . Put down a good drop cloth inside to try and catch the glass slivers , bits and dust , and have some people outside with good think leather gloves on to
catch the thing as you push it out .
Yes , if you kick it , it will come out in many small bits . I've removed a few windows this way .
Its fast and easy but scary , when the glass pops . Put down a good drop cloth inside to try and catch the glass slivers , bits and dust , and have some people outside with good think leather gloves on to
catch the thing as you push it out .
08-21-2005, 02:42 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
"Not in a street legal car..."
It might be against the rules but
its not that big of an offense .
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/safer_at_any_speed.htm
"Is it legal for use on the street? A Lexan windshield is as clear as a glass unit, and safer to boot, but check with your state and local authorities to make sure if you plan to use it on a street car. "I've never heard a customer say they've gotten a ticket," Mayerle said."
Replaceing the headlights with nonlegal ones ...
Removeing the catalyst ...
Doing 130 on the public road ...
There are many cars running on the street with plastic .
"The Windshield
The windshields on NASCAR race cars are made of Lexan, which is the same polycarbonate material used on fighter-plane canopies. This material is very strong, but also surprisingly soft. This softness is actually what gives it its strength. When an object hits the Lexan windshield, it doesn't shatter it. Instead, the object scratches, dents or imbeds itself in the windshield."
http://www.racingshields.com/
"Our exclusive hard coat - SUPERCOAT™- offers the highest level of abrasion and chemical resistance for coated polycarbonate available today. Our hard coat brings our level of abrasion resistance to within .3% of factory glass, and offers nearly 10 times the protection of other coated polycarbonate windshields.
SUPERCOAT™repels water better than any temporary window spray treatment, and will withstand the use of wipers when necessary."
Using formed polycarbonate (instead 0f glass) gives you multiple advantages:
¬ 1/2 the weight ¬ 250 times stronger
¬ Increased Noise Reduction ¬ Light Transmittance
¬ Less Heat Gain in Summer ¬ Less Heat Loss in Winter
It might be against the rules but
its not that big of an offense .
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/safer_at_any_speed.htm
"Is it legal for use on the street? A Lexan windshield is as clear as a glass unit, and safer to boot, but check with your state and local authorities to make sure if you plan to use it on a street car. "I've never heard a customer say they've gotten a ticket," Mayerle said."
Replaceing the headlights with nonlegal ones ...
Removeing the catalyst ...
Doing 130 on the public road ...
There are many cars running on the street with plastic .
"The Windshield
The windshields on NASCAR race cars are made of Lexan, which is the same polycarbonate material used on fighter-plane canopies. This material is very strong, but also surprisingly soft. This softness is actually what gives it its strength. When an object hits the Lexan windshield, it doesn't shatter it. Instead, the object scratches, dents or imbeds itself in the windshield."
http://www.racingshields.com/
"Our exclusive hard coat - SUPERCOAT™- offers the highest level of abrasion and chemical resistance for coated polycarbonate available today. Our hard coat brings our level of abrasion resistance to within .3% of factory glass, and offers nearly 10 times the protection of other coated polycarbonate windshields.
SUPERCOAT™repels water better than any temporary window spray treatment, and will withstand the use of wipers when necessary."
Using formed polycarbonate (instead 0f glass) gives you multiple advantages:
¬ 1/2 the weight ¬ 250 times stronger
¬ Increased Noise Reduction ¬ Light Transmittance
¬ Less Heat Gain in Summer ¬ Less Heat Loss in Winter
08-21-2005, 03:50 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
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Lexan windows are not DOT approved and are not street legal. I didn't say that in some applications that it is not better. Yes it is lighter. The point is... It's not street legal.
08-21-2005, 04:26 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
"The point is... It's not street legal."
You already said that and I already said that .
"It might be against the rules but its not that big of an offense ."
"check with your state and local authorities"
"Things were different when, coming home, I hopped onto Rt. 50 toward Annapolis. I didn't hear beeping so I let it go.... 80... 90... 100... 110... 120... just shy of 130... I backed it down to 95 and cruised for a few miles."
If you are really concerned with the rules , how do you rationalize doing near 130mph on a public road ?
The truth is , it seems to me , that you have decided to be disagreeable . Please reread the very unpleasant private message you sent me . I suggest that you take your own advice.
You already said that and I already said that .
"It might be against the rules but its not that big of an offense ."
"check with your state and local authorities"
"Things were different when, coming home, I hopped onto Rt. 50 toward Annapolis. I didn't hear beeping so I let it go.... 80... 90... 100... 110... 120... just shy of 130... I backed it down to 95 and cruised for a few miles."
If you are really concerned with the rules , how do you rationalize doing near 130mph on a public road ?
The truth is , it seems to me , that you have decided to be disagreeable . Please reread the very unpleasant private message you sent me . I suggest that you take your own advice.
08-21-2005, 04:37 PM
#30
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Rick, do you guys have some sort of inspection that it is checked if you have glass or lexan windows? Here in CA they care only about the smog test, nothing else...