964 Values ???
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Williamsburg, VA USA
964 Values ???
I have been looking for a 1989-92 964 for a couple of months now. I must admit that I am still baffled by the valuations. I know that some of the web resources (particularly Edmunds.com) are out of touch. But last month I got my copy of Excellence. Their "Guide to buying a use Porsche" article seems to indicate the the KBB values are the most realistic.
From what I can see most 964's for sale (Rennlist, AutoTrader, Cars.com, e-bay) are using the Bruce Anderson Market Guide +10%, and not selling. The KBB values are significantly less. What gives? Is everyone just pretending that the cars are for sale to please their wifes? (I can respect that)
I would like to purchase one of these cars, but I feel like I am dealing with a used car salesman with too much hair gel
Thanks, flame away (I love the cars too).
Sean
From what I can see most 964's for sale (Rennlist, AutoTrader, Cars.com, e-bay) are using the Bruce Anderson Market Guide +10%, and not selling. The KBB values are significantly less. What gives? Is everyone just pretending that the cars are for sale to please their wifes? (I can respect that)
I would like to purchase one of these cars, but I feel like I am dealing with a used car salesman with too much hair gel
Thanks, flame away (I love the cars too).
Sean
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From: TX
Sean,
You need to consider several data points when looking at price. As a buyer, I like to use the Kelly Blue Book private party transactions, as they reflect values under retail, and seem to be adjusted a little more frequently to reflect market conditions. Bruce Andersons Market Updates in Excellence is another data point. There's the NADA book, and others like them. Also, in the market updates, Bruce publishes what readers send in on recent transactions, which might give you some idea of some of the deals between asking and buying prices.
Don't forget to check PCA sources. Nationally look at <a href="http://www.pca.org." target="_blank">www.pca.org.</a> Also, PCA regions often have online ads. From the PCA website, on the right hand side click on regions and take a look around. One of the Oregon PCA regions has an extensive listing of online sources for Porsche sales, worth checking out.
You need to consider several data points when looking at price. As a buyer, I like to use the Kelly Blue Book private party transactions, as they reflect values under retail, and seem to be adjusted a little more frequently to reflect market conditions. Bruce Andersons Market Updates in Excellence is another data point. There's the NADA book, and others like them. Also, in the market updates, Bruce publishes what readers send in on recent transactions, which might give you some idea of some of the deals between asking and buying prices.
Don't forget to check PCA sources. Nationally look at <a href="http://www.pca.org." target="_blank">www.pca.org.</a> Also, PCA regions often have online ads. From the PCA website, on the right hand side click on regions and take a look around. One of the Oregon PCA regions has an extensive listing of online sources for Porsche sales, worth checking out.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 707
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From: Washington, D.C.
I've noticed the gap between the BA/Excellence prices and what 964s and 993s are really changing hands for. The BA/Excellence prices seem to be around 10-15% high.
The way that I've rationalized this is that BA/Excellence has 3 prices for each car - fair/good/excellent (or something along those lines)-- and there are **very** few truly excellent (i.e., concours perfect) cars. Most people have a lot of pride in their car (myself included) and think that it's "excellent", but it's really only "good", from the viewpoint of BA. If you assume that most 911s that you're considering are in "good", and not "excellent" condition, the BA/Excellence prices seem to be pretty close.
The way that I've rationalized this is that BA/Excellence has 3 prices for each car - fair/good/excellent (or something along those lines)-- and there are **very** few truly excellent (i.e., concours perfect) cars. Most people have a lot of pride in their car (myself included) and think that it's "excellent", but it's really only "good", from the viewpoint of BA. If you assume that most 911s that you're considering are in "good", and not "excellent" condition, the BA/Excellence prices seem to be pretty close.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Hi...
Just on this topic, did anyone see the article in GT Purely Porsche, June 2002, page 10? 'Porsche Values Buck Depreciation Trend'.
Interesting bit about 964's - suggests the lost a little ground in 2001, but are picking up in 2002, and in fact are showing a slight increase in value (?)
Did I read this right?
Just on this topic, did anyone see the article in GT Purely Porsche, June 2002, page 10? 'Porsche Values Buck Depreciation Trend'.
Interesting bit about 964's - suggests the lost a little ground in 2001, but are picking up in 2002, and in fact are showing a slight increase in value (?)
Did I read this right?
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 91
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta, GA
Another good source is the Porsche Market Letter.
He consolidates alot of online classified ads plus ads sent to him directly. The range is fairly wide and I think realistic of the market(once you take off the buyer seller 5-10% haggle factor).
PCA listings are going to be higher priced than Autotrader on average. PCA members are by definition into their cars and maintaining them. So are the folks buying these cars.
I think another factor in these KBB and NADA guidelines is the relative lack of sales data to track and draw interpretations and trends. We aren't talking Honda Accords here, so the range of cars and conditions is all over the map given the small sample size.
Having gone through the process 3 months ago, widen your search from your current location, and avoid used car lots selling a wide range of cars models like the plague. These guys know less about the car then you do.
He consolidates alot of online classified ads plus ads sent to him directly. The range is fairly wide and I think realistic of the market(once you take off the buyer seller 5-10% haggle factor).
PCA listings are going to be higher priced than Autotrader on average. PCA members are by definition into their cars and maintaining them. So are the folks buying these cars.
I think another factor in these KBB and NADA guidelines is the relative lack of sales data to track and draw interpretations and trends. We aren't talking Honda Accords here, so the range of cars and conditions is all over the map given the small sample size.
Having gone through the process 3 months ago, widen your search from your current location, and avoid used car lots selling a wide range of cars models like the plague. These guys know less about the car then you do.
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From: CT & Florida
Sean, FYI- I've also been looking @ SC'S & 964's for 4-5 months, checking Mags/ The NET etc As well as dealers & newspaper adds in the Tri-state ( NY& NJ/& my CT area.
Here's what I got for my money-..$22K + tax/reg.
1991 911 Carrera C-2 Guards Red/ Tan partial leather, interior very good, no cracks/creases.
All guages/lights/switches look & work as new.
The body has NO dings, the paint ( after deoxidizing & a wax job) minus a handful of minor stone chips is A-1.AC-cold, Aft mk am/fm/cd,SO-2's-80%, stock 16" wheels, gd. stock shocks,sunroof,brakes-70%F/50%R,Org. clutch is gd.(will upgrade w/ flywheel).
Leakdown 2-3% all clys,69,569K miles,Bra, Sport Exhaust & tool kit w/ new fan belt,Trans shifts fine (no rattles).
All checked by Hairy Dog Garage, in Oxford CT for
$150. (cheap insurance) + I got to drive it for 2+ hrs.
There is a left side pwr stearing seal in need of replacement,along w/ both gaskets for timing covers & Trans drain plug weeps/ CV joint boot-torn. The dual mass flywheel does'nt have full spring return.
Hope this helps, as a Real price paid last week!
Hope to figure out how to post a picture/s-
How'd I do/ Comments??
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Orient Red/savannah '02 C2 w/ Aero Kit
Guards Red/ Tan '91 C2
Here's what I got for my money-..$22K + tax/reg.
1991 911 Carrera C-2 Guards Red/ Tan partial leather, interior very good, no cracks/creases.
All guages/lights/switches look & work as new.
The body has NO dings, the paint ( after deoxidizing & a wax job) minus a handful of minor stone chips is A-1.AC-cold, Aft mk am/fm/cd,SO-2's-80%, stock 16" wheels, gd. stock shocks,sunroof,brakes-70%F/50%R,Org. clutch is gd.(will upgrade w/ flywheel).
Leakdown 2-3% all clys,69,569K miles,Bra, Sport Exhaust & tool kit w/ new fan belt,Trans shifts fine (no rattles).
All checked by Hairy Dog Garage, in Oxford CT for
$150. (cheap insurance) + I got to drive it for 2+ hrs.
There is a left side pwr stearing seal in need of replacement,along w/ both gaskets for timing covers & Trans drain plug weeps/ CV joint boot-torn. The dual mass flywheel does'nt have full spring return.
Hope this helps, as a Real price paid last week!
Hope to figure out how to post a picture/s-
How'd I do/ Comments??
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Orient Red/savannah '02 C2 w/ Aero Kit
Guards Red/ Tan '91 C2
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Thread Starter
AutoX
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Williamsburg, VA USA
Buckdr1 and TargaMike,
Thanks for the posts. Both of your cars sound much like what I am looking for.
TargaMike, I saw your car last week, but didn't think I'd have to look that far from home. I'll e-mail you shortly.
Sean
Thanks for the posts. Both of your cars sound much like what I am looking for.
TargaMike, I saw your car last week, but didn't think I'd have to look that far from home. I'll e-mail you shortly.
Sean
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