FilmStar Hot Film .....Comments pls
07-21-2002, 05:27 PM
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FilmStar Hot Film .....Comments pls
Anyone installed one of these Hot Film devices in their 964? Are the results what they claim to be: 285HP and better throttle response?
Was it simple to install....ie: Plug in and Play?
Thanks!
Was it simple to install....ie: Plug in and Play?
Thanks!
07-22-2002, 06:24 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by 1993HK964C4:
<strong>Anyone installed one of these Hot Film devices in their 964? Are the results what they claim to be: 285HP and better throttle response?
Was it simple to install....ie: Plug in and Play?
Thanks!</strong><hr></blockquote>
You will get more power from one of these devices, however some of that power gain comes from the chip that goes with it. You also really need to do some exhaust system mods as well - de-cat + cup pipe.
Hot film/wire mass air flow meters do work - some implementations better than others - but it is expensive horse power.
Really depends on what you goal is?
<strong>Anyone installed one of these Hot Film devices in their 964? Are the results what they claim to be: 285HP and better throttle response?
Was it simple to install....ie: Plug in and Play?
Thanks!</strong><hr></blockquote>
You will get more power from one of these devices, however some of that power gain comes from the chip that goes with it. You also really need to do some exhaust system mods as well - de-cat + cup pipe.
Hot film/wire mass air flow meters do work - some implementations better than others - but it is expensive horse power.
Really depends on what you goal is?
07-22-2002, 10:00 AM
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Fancy marketing tag for a mass airflow sensor. Ala 928 and 993.
Waste of money on their own. The standard 964 DME will not respond to the input. You need a complete package which as Steve suggests quite rightly includes another eprom or chip. The DME will also require remapping. Again please remember, $US208:00 per HP increase at the rear wheels. 35HP = $US7,280,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: What does it do. It measures the amount of airflow going into the engine. It is more accurate than the airflow sensor of the 964 series and has a hot wire which heats up to, well very hot (I believe 1000C) to burn off any crud which will distort the airflow measurements.
Waste of money on their own. The standard 964 DME will not respond to the input. You need a complete package which as Steve suggests quite rightly includes another eprom or chip. The DME will also require remapping. Again please remember, $US208:00 per HP increase at the rear wheels. 35HP = $US7,280,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: What does it do. It measures the amount of airflow going into the engine. It is more accurate than the airflow sensor of the 964 series and has a hot wire which heats up to, well very hot (I believe 1000C) to burn off any crud which will distort the airflow measurements.
07-22-2002, 10:06 AM
#5
[quote] What is it and what does it do ? <hr></blockquote>
In the 964, there is a big flap between the intake and the airbox - it's connected to a potentiometer, and moves as the air is sucked in. This is the standard air flow sensor. The MAF replaces the big flap with a small electric sensor thing (technical term that).
Dave
90 C4
In the 964, there is a big flap between the intake and the airbox - it's connected to a potentiometer, and moves as the air is sucked in. This is the standard air flow sensor. The MAF replaces the big flap with a small electric sensor thing (technical term that).
Dave
90 C4
07-22-2002, 11:17 AM
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Dyno plot power gains topic on this board provides information re: MAF kit goto <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001956" target="_blank">dyno plot power gains</a>
07-22-2002, 12:30 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Adrian:
<strong>Fancy marketing tag for a mass airflow sensor. Ala 928 and 993.
Waste of money on their own. The standard 964 DME will not respond to the input. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The Hot Film unit from AMD and the like actually has a little black box that goes between the sensor and the DME which makes the MAF look like a flap. The real problem is that they measure different things. The flap type measures the air flow where as the MAF measures the mass of air. Two totally different things. However the DME will still need reprograming for it to work.
<strong>Fancy marketing tag for a mass airflow sensor. Ala 928 and 993.
Waste of money on their own. The standard 964 DME will not respond to the input. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The Hot Film unit from AMD and the like actually has a little black box that goes between the sensor and the DME which makes the MAF look like a flap. The real problem is that they measure different things. The flap type measures the air flow where as the MAF measures the mass of air. Two totally different things. However the DME will still need reprograming for it to work.
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07-22-2002, 03:45 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by SteveW@stig:
<strong>
However the DME will still need reprograming for it to work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does anyone have part numbers from Bosch for what some independent tuners have called the mass cash flow sensor?
<strong>
However the DME will still need reprograming for it to work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does anyone have part numbers from Bosch for what some independent tuners have called the mass cash flow sensor?
07-22-2002, 06:02 PM
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I believe this to be from the box the MAF came in.However, I doubt this will be of much use on its own as you will need the interface module - "the little black box" to convert the signals the MAF unit produces into a signal the DME is fooled into believing originates from the original air flow sensor.
There is , I believe< no absolute need to re-chip or reprogram the DME as, as far as the DME is concerned the original sensor is still present.
07-22-2002, 06:16 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by JasonAndreas:
<strong>
Does anyone have part numbers from Bosch for what some independent tuners have called the mass cash flow sensor?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is the same unit as fitted to the 993. I can look up the Porsche part number for you or if you want the Bosch part number go to <a href="http://www.stig.uklinux.net" target="_blank">www.stig.uklinux.net</a> -> technical -> library there you will find a link to a Bosch site. Here you can enter car details and it will list all Bosch parts on that car. Pretty cool eh
<strong>
Does anyone have part numbers from Bosch for what some independent tuners have called the mass cash flow sensor?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is the same unit as fitted to the 993. I can look up the Porsche part number for you or if you want the Bosch part number go to <a href="http://www.stig.uklinux.net" target="_blank">www.stig.uklinux.net</a> -> technical -> library there you will find a link to a Bosch site. Here you can enter car details and it will list all Bosch parts on that car. Pretty cool eh
07-22-2002, 06:25 PM
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SteveW@stig
[quote] It is the same unit as fitted to the 993 <hr></blockquote>
I was told the MAF wasn`t the same as a 993 unit. I believe it`s a unit used on some Audi models
[quote] It is the same unit as fitted to the 993 <hr></blockquote>
I was told the MAF wasn`t the same as a 993 unit. I believe it`s a unit used on some Audi models
07-23-2002, 05:54 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by tonytaylor:
<strong>SteveW@stig
I was told the MAF wasn`t the same as a 993 unit. I believe it`s a unit used on some Audi models</strong><hr></blockquote>
No it is the 993 unit. This same unit may be used on some Audi as well. If you are thinking of a DIY job here you will need a air temp sensor as well. A wiring harness to plug these new components in to the loom. Finally a bit of inlet plumbing as the MAF is about 3" shorter than the flat unit.
<strong>SteveW@stig
I was told the MAF wasn`t the same as a 993 unit. I believe it`s a unit used on some Audi models</strong><hr></blockquote>
No it is the 993 unit. This same unit may be used on some Audi as well. If you are thinking of a DIY job here you will need a air temp sensor as well. A wiring harness to plug these new components in to the loom. Finally a bit of inlet plumbing as the MAF is about 3" shorter than the flat unit.
07-23-2002, 07:57 AM
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Dear Tony,
If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. I have never understood, if the DME thinks it is the old sensor why put a different one in. The old DMEs of the 964 cannot use this data without some help. This is one of the big cons with this MAF set up. If you have an original 911 series DME installed it just cannot make any use of the data refined or not. The late dash numbers of the 964 series of DMEs are more refined and may show some small gains. Not much though.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. I have never understood, if the DME thinks it is the old sensor why put a different one in. The old DMEs of the 964 cannot use this data without some help. This is one of the big cons with this MAF set up. If you have an original 911 series DME installed it just cannot make any use of the data refined or not. The late dash numbers of the 964 series of DMEs are more refined and may show some small gains. Not much though.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
07-23-2002, 09:48 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Adrian:
<strong>Dear Tony,
If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree totally with adrian on this one. The only minor advantage could be said to be the improved air flow? From Bosch technical docs the air pressure drop at the sensor is only 0.12kPa (0.017psi). This is a fraction of a percent of atmospheric pressure
Better to spend the money on ensuring the engine is in tip top condition then go for exhaust mods, air filter and chip.
<strong>Dear Tony,
If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree totally with adrian on this one. The only minor advantage could be said to be the improved air flow? From Bosch technical docs the air pressure drop at the sensor is only 0.12kPa (0.017psi). This is a fraction of a percent of atmospheric pressure
Better to spend the money on ensuring the engine is in tip top condition then go for exhaust mods, air filter and chip.
07-23-2002, 09:56 AM
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SteveW@stig [quote]It is the same unit as fitted to the 993 <hr></blockquote>
Steve, I have a MAF kit fitted by AMD and Geof at AMD and other porsche mechanics who have looked at it have said I don`t have a 993 MAF.I am just reporting what I have been told.
Adrian
[quote] If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. I have never understood, if the DME thinks it is the old sensor why put a different one in. <hr></blockquote>
There is as far as I know no point in fitting the MAF sensor without a re-chip as there is unlikely to be any performance gains and perhaps even a loss.The re-chip is essential to take advantage of the MAF sensor.What I was trying to illustrate was that the DME did not need reprogramming as a strictly essential result of fitting the MAF sensor.The reason for using MAF sensors is, I believe, that the airflow through the sensor is smoother as there is no flap to impede the airflow .This results, in theory, with greater airflow (which + more fuel = greater power) and more rapid changes in the rate of airflow which improves throttle response.
As I have said I have a MAF and now have 250+ bhp at the wheels so I am sold on their effectiveness in improving power.Reliability and service issues are a different matter.
Steve, I have a MAF kit fitted by AMD and Geof at AMD and other porsche mechanics who have looked at it have said I don`t have a 993 MAF.I am just reporting what I have been told.
Adrian
[quote] If you do not carry out all the required mods to take advantage of the increased accuracy and sensitivity and tunability (use of the improved data)of the MAF what is th epoint of installing it. I have never understood, if the DME thinks it is the old sensor why put a different one in. <hr></blockquote>
There is as far as I know no point in fitting the MAF sensor without a re-chip as there is unlikely to be any performance gains and perhaps even a loss.The re-chip is essential to take advantage of the MAF sensor.What I was trying to illustrate was that the DME did not need reprogramming as a strictly essential result of fitting the MAF sensor.The reason for using MAF sensors is, I believe, that the airflow through the sensor is smoother as there is no flap to impede the airflow .This results, in theory, with greater airflow (which + more fuel = greater power) and more rapid changes in the rate of airflow which improves throttle response.
As I have said I have a MAF and now have 250+ bhp at the wheels so I am sold on their effectiveness in improving power.Reliability and service issues are a different matter.