Hi Chaps,

So what do you think?

I suppose with the Turbo you have the on off turbo lag feel. With a supercharger you have power all the way through...

Anything else?

Cheers

Sunil

 

The other consideration is standard vs modified.

I looked into supercharging a couple of years ago. However - on top of the cost of the super charger (which is not bad) I also had to factor in 17" wheels, turbo brakes etc. etc.

Plus - insurance for a modified car. One insurer said they wanted modified suspension as well (fortunately, I already have some) - and it would be more difficult to insure than a stock car.

I actually like turbos - and these days, I think I would be much happier spending the money on a turbo - which was built that way - than a supercharger which means mods.

 

Maybe someone else can chime in here but it would seem like a supercharger would always be "on" since they're crankshaft driven whereas a turbocharger would only be "on" after a certain rpm level (exhaust driven). I know the constant nature of the supercharger means the power is always there without lag but could this also lead to premature wear and tear on the engine with consistenly higher temps? There was some discussion on the 993 board about a month or so ago concerning how this might also effect the value of the car.
If it were me, I'd go for the turbo; I love the wide hips!

c

 

The surpercharger stuff bothers me b/c it uses the stock setup and bolts on. The turbo setup, for one thing, uses lower compression ratios.

Now maybe in reality it isn't a big deal, but I'd be worried about preignition due to the greater cylinder pressures. I know there are knock sensors and maybe that makes it ok. Maybe the turbo engine is beefed up a bit more also in some places. I'd seriously consider going through the engine in either case. Oh! as I recall the management system for the supercharger doesnt have to be as sophisticated.

Supercharger pulls power off the engine so its not as efficient of a system. An exhaust driven turbo, in theory, uses excess energy from the exhaust to give you the boost.

Both are wonderful. Its all in what you want.

I have heard vw/audi is working on a supercharger/exhaust turbo setup combination. Super works down low where turbos can't and then swap from the super to the turbo as it spools up.

Some of these can disengage the supercharger, ala Mad Maxx, and thus you are left with only the drag on the car of the belt assembly. I've seen a supra setup with a variable boost controlled turbo.

 

Has anyone on here ever stuffed a 3.6 turbo into a 964 normal? Sounds like you'd have to have a brand new wiring harness to go with it... unless all the engine sensors hook up directly to the existing wiring, right?

 

I'm seriously thinking about going to TPC in Maryland to have a supercharger added. I like the idea of a supercharger over turbo even though it's not a stock bolt-on product. TPC (No affiliation, etc, etc.) is known for their great work in this area. They have their dyno results posted. Their kits are good for 993 or 964 applications. $7k is a chunk of change... But added power is never free... Especially this amount of power.

Just my .02

 

Rick - let me know when you go to TPC and I'll go with you as I plan to install one too!

Before I add more power though, I want to upgrade my suspension and brakes first.

Marc

 

Marc - My suspension and brakes have already been upgraded... It's time for more power! I just started a new business... It will probably be a few months before I do this. I have to wait to "earn" that quarterly bonus.

Indy... I know the basics of superchargers already... The links you posted are geared more toward V-6 & V-8 applications... I know what I want and where I'll have it done. Thanks though...

 

Resale value is an issue as well, unless you just don't care about that sort of thing. I would think that when you factor in all the other modifications that should truly be done, e.g. brakes, suspension, engine remap, fuel delivery issues, and also factor in the increased wear and tear on the engine that it might be less expensive in the long run to just go for a 965 or a 930. If you've got a base 964 at 20k, then add a 7k supercharger setup, then 1k for suspension, maybe 1k(?) for brakes, and money for other assorted extras you're looking at close to 30k. Low mileage turbos run in the low 40ks and they're factory designed, tested, and supported. Finally, the money put into modifications won't be recouped, so the resale value of the NA 964 that's now gone forced induction will probably stay about the same, while the turbo will retain it's value, or even appreciate. Now if you've already got some of the upgrades done, as Rick does, it's a bit different story. Or if you're really not worried about resale value because you could never bear to part with your beloved 964, same thing. But once again, it really all comes down to personal preference.

Brian

 

I've owned both. A heavily modded 930 & my current SoK supercharged, widebody 964. No comparison on grins-per-mile factor. 930 was Yugo to F16 once it spun up, SC feels & sounds like I have a BB Chevy back there. In fact, last weekend in a drive-through on the way to the track, the guy behind me walked up to the car & asked what I had back there. He swore it was a BB & was in shock when he found out it was just a 6.

Anyway, the SC is much more linear & driveable around town. You wan't disappointed. Do a search for some more info & good luck!

 

Sunil

Take your 964 to TTP in Germany. Give them about 30kEuros and they will give you a twin turbo conversion with 450hp. Knowing how my car drives, I would say you would have to be *very*careful driving that car......

 

Smokin, I want a ride in your car for Xmas if you get a s'charger.

A lot of people worry about superchargers being bolted on aftermarket, but I would think that, even with higher compression ratios of N/A motors (compared to a factory turbo'ed car), the ratios can be offset by a lower boost pressure from the turbo/supercharger, therefore not being that bad or damaging the motor. Of course it will wear faster afterwards though.

Personally, I like turbos better for a few reasons...
- They dont rob any power to make power as does a s'charger. More efficient.
- I'm a sucker for the sound of a turbo spooling at high-boost.
- I love the sudden, sustained rush of a car once the turbo spools up.
- The "jet turbine" sound of air rushing out of the exhaust under high boost. (I guess this probably happens with s'chargers too, but I'm just going off of turbo cars I've owned previously, and the one I own now.)

But then again, if one wants power-on-demand, then of course a s'charger should be tapped. I guess I like "power by surprise" from a turbo.

 

*power by surprise' is something a lot of people *don't* like unless you are driving in a straightline. I agree turbo boost is exciting but from a driveability point of view it sucks ***. IMHO. SC is the way I would go if I felt I had to use forced induction.

 

LOL @ "sucks ***".

Yeh, it's definitely all about preference. I dont get much bothered by turbo lag from a driveability stand point. It actually works for me. This is all setup-dependant though, as the larger turbo you have, of course in-town driveability starts to take a nose dive due to the lag of the larger turbo.
What I'm saying is that I appreciate how turbo cars sort of have "two personalities"... 1.) being when the revs are too low to boost much, and 2.) being the boost range. Turbo cars are (obviously) very sedate in their lag range, which makes them, IMO, relaxing to drive in the semi-rare event that I want to just cruise slow. When I dont want to deal with a lot of power, I just keep the car under 3.5k RPM by shifting beforehand. Turbos get better gas mileage too because of that "option". Supercharged cars that I've driven before are always powerful, but I guess that's the point! Power on demand as has been discussed.

Again, personal preference!

Either way, both beat that pants off of NA!

 

It was definitely a "cheap thrill" taking people for rides in my old 930. It ran 0-60 in about 4 sec., 0-30 took about 2.5, 30-60 in about 1.5 or less. Real eye opener! The SC in comparison is just plain fast from the get go. I was stuck in traffic a couple of weeks ago on the highway & saw an opening in the other lane. I revved her up a bit & dumped the clutch. HOLY CRAP! Looked like an NHRA burnout contest even with 285s on the back & all that engine/tranny weight over the wheels. Pretty amazing! (note to self: Don't do that again!) The turbo would have never done that. It was a tug-boat until you got it spun up.