Which track pads? Pagid, Hawk, Porterfield, PFC OR Carbotech?
06-16-2003, 08:32 PM
#1
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Which track pads? Pagid, Hawk, Porterfield, PFC OR Carbotech?
I've gone through another set of Hawk's and a friend suggested the PFC 97's. Does anyone have experience with these pads? I've also heard that the Porterfield pads are worth a go.
Here's how they stack up on a price/axle basis:
$185 Pagid Orange (Northstar Motorsports)
$110 Hawk Blue (Vertex Auto)
$102 Performance Friction 97 (Raceshopper)
$82 Porterfield R4 (AJ USA)
I've tried both the Pagid's and Hawk's and they perform as advertised: great grip under extreme conditions. Fade was also nonexistent but I'm certain if I tried hard enough, I could boil my fluid.
So is there something about the PFC's or Porterfield's which make them worth a try?
Here's how they stack up on a price/axle basis:
$185 Pagid Orange (Northstar Motorsports)
$110 Hawk Blue (Vertex Auto)
$102 Performance Friction 97 (Raceshopper)
$82 Porterfield R4 (AJ USA)
I've tried both the Pagid's and Hawk's and they perform as advertised: great grip under extreme conditions. Fade was also nonexistent but I'm certain if I tried hard enough, I could boil my fluid.
So is there something about the PFC's or Porterfield's which make them worth a try?
06-16-2003, 08:41 PM
#2
Drifting
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Well maybe the $103 dollars in your pocket after buying the Porterfield make them worth trying. They're unlikely to get you killed, so its not a maximum risk trial.
06-16-2003, 09:20 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: WhippetWorld, .........is it really only this many
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I`m using the Porterfield R4 at present and they`re a big improvement over the stock pads (NB big reds)and have cut braking distance and give a better feel - I haven`t locked up since using them,I haven`t used any of the others as yet but looking at the price comparison I can think of 103 reasons to try them instead of the padgids.
06-16-2003, 10:53 PM
#4
Porterfield R4 are to soft you will go thought them very fast ~ 2-4 days and have a medium friction value. I us to run KFP carbon/Kevlar Purple the Porterfield R4 are the same pad as the KFP Yellow, KFP Purple is a higher temp pad. Porterfield and KFP pads are carbon/Kevlar made by the same mfg. I switch to Pagid RS14 Black this is the pad to use, better brake modulation then the Pagid Orange, great resistance to fad and high friction value. <a href="http://www.pagidusa.com/characteri.html" target="_blank">http://www.pagidusa.com/characteri.html</a>
You can get them from <a href="http://www.vehiclecraft.com/" target="_blank">VCI</a>
You can get them from <a href="http://www.vehiclecraft.com/" target="_blank">VCI</a>
06-17-2003, 01:41 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Joey,
David is right. The Pagid blacks do have the highest friction value but they are tough on rotors. If you want the all out best stopping with rotors & heat be damned, they are the way to go. I ran oranges forever on my 964 but my Supercup came with Pagid yellows & I love 'em. They are the current hot pad (no pun intended) in endurance racing. Rotor friendly with friction values that are very close to the oranges. Hey, if they are good enough for the Racer's Group & several other teams, what the hey
Go to Pagid's website for info on all the various compounds. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
David is right. The Pagid blacks do have the highest friction value but they are tough on rotors. If you want the all out best stopping with rotors & heat be damned, they are the way to go. I ran oranges forever on my 964 but my Supercup came with Pagid yellows & I love 'em. They are the current hot pad (no pun intended) in endurance racing. Rotor friendly with friction values that are very close to the oranges. Hey, if they are good enough for the Racer's Group & several other teams, what the hey
Go to Pagid's website for info on all the various compounds. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Trending Topics
06-17-2003, 07:31 AM
#8
Technical Specialist
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
I believe Pegasus Racing (www.pegasusautoracing) also carries the PFC pads. If you go with Pagids, Rennlist sponsor Paragon Products also includes a free can of ATE Gold or Super Blue with each axle set. 964 Pagids are $179 at Paragon.
06-17-2003, 12:09 PM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mike in Chi:
<strong>You're taking this much too seriously.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Thanks, all, for your perspective. I suspected that the Porterfield's might be too good to be true. In terms of value, it appears the Hawk Blues may be the best deal going. Their dust is borderline toxic but they definitely get the job done.
I think I'll give both the Pagid Yellows and Blacks a try over the summer.
<strong>You're taking this much too seriously.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Thanks, all, for your perspective. I suspected that the Porterfield's might be too good to be true. In terms of value, it appears the Hawk Blues may be the best deal going. Their dust is borderline toxic but they definitely get the job done.
I think I'll give both the Pagid Yellows and Blacks a try over the summer.
06-18-2003, 02:10 AM
#10
Race Car
Okay, as I've tried them ALL...here's my take:
Pagids = AWESOME!! ...orange and black, but pricey. They last one weekend with the factory calipers, two weekends w/BIG Reds.
Porterfields = Gets the job done, but VERY messy as they make your wheels BLACK and leave metal fragments embedded in them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
...but they are cheap. Again, one weekend with factory calipers, TWO with BIG Reds.
Hawks = Great stopping power, a little "weird" on rotors but come with a decent price tag that won't leave you feeling like when you've bought a couple sets of Pagids.
...can't remember how long they lasted because I was too concerned w/getting all the BLACK crap off my wheels/car! <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
PFC 97 = GREAT price, available through several sources...but LAST FOREVER...okay, this is NOT good, because they don't stop the friggin' car worth a damn...they have to get heated up good, like a couple of good laps - HORRIBLE for racing, "dodgy" for DE events.
Where am I headed?? I have a deal through Carbotech in N.C. at the moment as a part-time Chief Instructor with NASA to get their compounds at a considerable discount.
No, I can't buy for others either.
They offer a GREAT compound for the street/track called Panther Plus...RSA Erick uses them and LOVES them.
They also offer an 1108 and 1109 compound for track use...they admit that they are a bit dusty/messy but SWEAR that I will be tickled with the performance. I am going through a set of Pagids and Porterfields every other weekend with my BIG Reds...and would like to see THREE to FOUR weekends out of them!!!!!!!!!
...the owner says this is VERY possible as their compound wears better.
The 1108 far surpasses the performance of the Porterfield R4-S and would compare, if not exceed the performance of Pagid Orange...according to their data.
This is good, as I LOVE Pagid Orange for DE!!
The 1109 compound supposedly outperforms Pagid Black...but then again, this is just their data and I have yet to try them.
I will be using the 1108 compound for the PCA Club Race at Mid-America Motorplex, July 11th-13th...so we'll see.
To sum it all up, different people have different driving styles, I late brake like crazy and probably too often...so I go through A LOT of pads. You will see people having different opinions about brake pads, just like tires.
My Formula Toyota came with a set of PFC 97s on it, front and rear...they will go bye-bye before my first session/race this Saturday - I don't like them.
I will be putting in a set of custom pads by Carbotech Engineering, front and rear, compliments of one of their suppliers...if I like them, a potential deal will be struck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
SO, am I a ***** to whoever has the best deal?? Let's face it, when you go through $3000 worth of brake pads in 2002...I'll jump in bed with just about ANYBODY who gives me a deal! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Go out there and try the different manufacturers yourself...find the best deal per performance value and go with it. If you don't like a certain set of manufacturer's pads, take them out and put them in your "Emergency Spare Brake Pad Inventory Box" and save them for a rainy day...after all, they all seem to work pretty good, some better than others.
I'm not affiliated with any of the brake pad manufacturer's, although I do have a pretty good deal with some of them...my comments were honest and I have yet to put the first PUSH to the pedal for either of the last two mentioned.
...but hopefully I'm a satisfied customer!
Pagids = AWESOME!! ...orange and black, but pricey. They last one weekend with the factory calipers, two weekends w/BIG Reds.
Porterfields = Gets the job done, but VERY messy as they make your wheels BLACK and leave metal fragments embedded in them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
...but they are cheap. Again, one weekend with factory calipers, TWO with BIG Reds.
Hawks = Great stopping power, a little "weird" on rotors but come with a decent price tag that won't leave you feeling like when you've bought a couple sets of Pagids.
...can't remember how long they lasted because I was too concerned w/getting all the BLACK crap off my wheels/car! <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
PFC 97 = GREAT price, available through several sources...but LAST FOREVER...okay, this is NOT good, because they don't stop the friggin' car worth a damn...they have to get heated up good, like a couple of good laps - HORRIBLE for racing, "dodgy" for DE events.
Where am I headed?? I have a deal through Carbotech in N.C. at the moment as a part-time Chief Instructor with NASA to get their compounds at a considerable discount.
No, I can't buy for others either.
They offer a GREAT compound for the street/track called Panther Plus...RSA Erick uses them and LOVES them.
They also offer an 1108 and 1109 compound for track use...they admit that they are a bit dusty/messy but SWEAR that I will be tickled with the performance. I am going through a set of Pagids and Porterfields every other weekend with my BIG Reds...and would like to see THREE to FOUR weekends out of them!!!!!!!!!
...the owner says this is VERY possible as their compound wears better.
The 1108 far surpasses the performance of the Porterfield R4-S and would compare, if not exceed the performance of Pagid Orange...according to their data.
This is good, as I LOVE Pagid Orange for DE!!
The 1109 compound supposedly outperforms Pagid Black...but then again, this is just their data and I have yet to try them.
I will be using the 1108 compound for the PCA Club Race at Mid-America Motorplex, July 11th-13th...so we'll see.
To sum it all up, different people have different driving styles, I late brake like crazy and probably too often...so I go through A LOT of pads. You will see people having different opinions about brake pads, just like tires.
My Formula Toyota came with a set of PFC 97s on it, front and rear...they will go bye-bye before my first session/race this Saturday - I don't like them.
I will be putting in a set of custom pads by Carbotech Engineering, front and rear, compliments of one of their suppliers...if I like them, a potential deal will be struck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
SO, am I a ***** to whoever has the best deal?? Let's face it, when you go through $3000 worth of brake pads in 2002...I'll jump in bed with just about ANYBODY who gives me a deal! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Go out there and try the different manufacturers yourself...find the best deal per performance value and go with it. If you don't like a certain set of manufacturer's pads, take them out and put them in your "Emergency Spare Brake Pad Inventory Box" and save them for a rainy day...after all, they all seem to work pretty good, some better than others.
I'm not affiliated with any of the brake pad manufacturer's, although I do have a pretty good deal with some of them...my comments were honest and I have yet to put the first PUSH to the pedal for either of the last two mentioned.
...but hopefully I'm a satisfied customer!
06-18-2003, 01:14 PM
#11
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Good call on the Carbotech products, Jeff. I forgot all about them but have seen several fast dudes using them at the track. Specifically, they were running the Panther Plus (1106) compound on their Acura NSX's.
According to their website, the max. temp prior to fading is 1,250F for the Panther Plus; that's actually higher than the 1,200F number for Pagid Blacks. FWIW, Yellow's are supposedly good to 1,100F and Orange's to 1,050F. But like you said, these are just website numbers and the different compounds need to be compared on the track.
The other interesting bit about Carbotech is that they manufacture pads for other companies, like the Hawk Blues! All we need now is for Erick to chime in and say they kicked the hell out of the used Orange's I sent him and I think we've got ourselves a winner.
What the hell, I'm going to try these too!
According to their website, the max. temp prior to fading is 1,250F for the Panther Plus; that's actually higher than the 1,200F number for Pagid Blacks. FWIW, Yellow's are supposedly good to 1,100F and Orange's to 1,050F. But like you said, these are just website numbers and the different compounds need to be compared on the track.
The other interesting bit about Carbotech is that they manufacture pads for other companies, like the Hawk Blues! All we need now is for Erick to chime in and say they kicked the hell out of the used Orange's I sent him and I think we've got ourselves a winner.
What the hell, I'm going to try these too!
06-18-2003, 10:23 PM
#12
Pagid RS14 Blacks lasted me:
Front Big Red: 6 days/800 miles on track
Rear Cup Car setup: 8 Days/1100 miles on track
This was a mix of Pocono, Lime Rock and Watkins Glen. Some tacks are harder on brakes like Summit Point.
Front Big Red: 6 days/800 miles on track
Rear Cup Car setup: 8 Days/1100 miles on track
This was a mix of Pocono, Lime Rock and Watkins Glen. Some tacks are harder on brakes like Summit Point.
06-18-2003, 11:23 PM
#13
Race Car
Yeah David, most of my "brake pad wearing out" experience was gained at Summit Point, VIR and CMP...CMP being the WORST on brakes, but still fun.
Joey, that would be great, tryout the Panther Plus and I'll tryout the 1108 compound.
I would like to hear your opinion on how dusty/messy they are and if you experienced any negative issues.
If they workout, I have BIG Reds and can basically run a cheap street pad in there and get away with murder...so the Panther Plus may be all that I need, especially being that they are advised for street/light track use.
Joey, that would be great, tryout the Panther Plus and I'll tryout the 1108 compound.
I would like to hear your opinion on how dusty/messy they are and if you experienced any negative issues.
If they workout, I have BIG Reds and can basically run a cheap street pad in there and get away with murder...so the Panther Plus may be all that I need, especially being that they are advised for street/light track use.
06-19-2003, 07:03 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by joey bagadonuts:
[QB].... All we need now is for Erick to chime in and say they kicked the hell out of the used Orange's I sent him and I think we've got ourselves a winner.....QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I was out of town for 6 days - with no access to Rennlist!
Joe, I've got to admit that I haven't tried your Pagid Oranges yet. I put new Carbotechs Panther Plus pads on my car for my first track day of the year, thinking that I'd like to remember what they felt like before trying the Pagids. Well, they wore so well, that I just kept them on the car for my 2nd track day... and even my 3rd/most recent track day! Sheesh, they last forever!
I can report that the fronts are fairly well worn now (but not "gone"). I promise that I'll put the Pagids on for my next track day and give a full report.
I'd also like to report that I had a similar experience as others with the Porterfield R4 pads. They worked well enough, but they wore out VERY quickly.
Erick
[QB].... All we need now is for Erick to chime in and say they kicked the hell out of the used Orange's I sent him and I think we've got ourselves a winner.....QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I was out of town for 6 days - with no access to Rennlist!
Joe, I've got to admit that I haven't tried your Pagid Oranges yet. I put new Carbotechs Panther Plus pads on my car for my first track day of the year, thinking that I'd like to remember what they felt like before trying the Pagids. Well, they wore so well, that I just kept them on the car for my 2nd track day... and even my 3rd/most recent track day! Sheesh, they last forever!
I can report that the fronts are fairly well worn now (but not "gone"). I promise that I'll put the Pagids on for my next track day and give a full report.
I'd also like to report that I had a similar experience as others with the Porterfield R4 pads. They worked well enough, but they wore out VERY quickly.
Erick
06-19-2003, 11:05 PM
#15
Be careful with switching back and forth with different types of pads. You can run into compatibility problems. This can result in uneven pad material deposits on the rotor which may cause vibration and poor braking.
Read these links below:
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq7.html" target="_blank">Why is the pad and rotor break-in procedure so important? </a>
This is a very good "White Paper"
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm" target="_blank">The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System </a>
Read these links below:
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/faq/data/faq7.html" target="_blank">Why is the pad and rotor break-in procedure so important? </a>
This is a very good "White Paper"
<a href="http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm" target="_blank">The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System </a>