I own a 964 RS and I am thinking of having fitted an AMD mass air flow kit with large throttle body and my engine management reprogrammed to take account of the above. AMD offer this kit fitted for £1475 including the programming and £250 for the large throttle body. They estimate about 300hp.

Has anyone had this done and if so were the results all good. - any disavantages?

Any experiance would be very welcome. Thanks

 

Yes on 964C2 read this link<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001956" target="_blank">Power gains dyno plot</a>

 

Thanks Tony

I take it that you recommend this conversion? Did you notice any loss of fuel consumption? I have heard that with the hot film conversion fuel consumption suffers.

Regards

 

Tron

As far as the performance claims are concerned then yes I would recommend the conversion and I wouldn`t want to revert to stock again.
However, if you have read the topic you will know I had problems that AMD were happy to fix but it was a PITA going from Manchester to Oxford for this as no other porsche specialists were able to fix the problem.
Petrol consumption did drop by a couple of mpg.

 

Cheers Tony

I guess this would be the same for me if I had the Motec conversion. I would end up having to go to 930 Motorsport in Warrington if I had problems. For me that's a 400 mile round trip

Best regards

 

Tron

I had JZ Machtech carry out a cat bypass and Roock re-chip on my 1992 964 RS (now sadly with a new owner) and power was "conservatively" measured at 270 bhp.

Interestingly a specialist who serviced mine was suprised that it was "only" pushing out 270 bhp as they thought it felt quicker than aa AMD hot film converted car which was reputed to push out the magical 300 bhp.

Most experts seem to agree that the 300 bhp barrier is hard to break without changing the internals of the engine, The 3.8 Roock conversion only claims 300 bhp and this is a very comprehensive conversion.

 

Thanks George

Yes the 300 bhp barrier does seem very difficult to beat unless lots of money is spent. I read about the Roock converted 993 in 911 World recently, but the 993 engine is another ballgame - much more difficult to obtain more power from this engine. A good 964 RS with 300bhp will easily beat a 993 with 320bhp and more - so I've been told!

I think to break the 300 bhp barrier you need to change to high flow injectors which is what in included in the 930 Motorsport Motec conversion.

Sorry to hear you have parted company with your RS. I have been considering selling my 964 RS and buying a 993 RS purely because it is a little more road friendly than the 964. I am sure I would regret the move as the feel and feedback is so much better on the 964 RS.

The good news is that you wont have lost any money on your RS as they are increasing in valve all the time.

Best regards

 

interesting your comments about not being very road friendly!

I used mine in all weathers, virtually daily and after a while the novelty wore off. (I remember a three hour drive from Oxford to Grantham in thick fog). You have to be pretty hardcore to use it as your only car.

However the acceleration down motorway slip roads made it all worth while, I have yet to drive a car as exciting and raw as a 964 RS, mine felt unburstable and the power just seemed to go on for ever in every gear, apparantly you can hit the rev limiter in 5th!!

The 993 RS is a superb car and if I had the money (and no baby due!!!), one would be sitting in my garage now with a '73 RS touring to keep it company!

You are right about values, mine was completely deprication proof, unlike my new BMW 330 convertible.

 

I have seen the 930 Motorsports advertisement in Excellence magazine but they don't really say much. What exactly do they do to get the estimated 324HP? I've searched on rennlist and all i've seen mentioned was Motec, bigger injectors and a MAP sensor. Their website says less than their magazine advertisements. I believe SteveW was going to look into the potential airflow differences between the stock air meter and the MAF and MAP methods. Steve, did you ever have the opportunity to check things out? I understand the reasons for using the Motec controller (and its not because it is any better at "injecting the precise amount of fuel at the exact moments in time..." than the bosch box, its just easier.) The picture in the 930M advertisement shows a carbon fiber velocity/butterfly/whatever you call it intake, is this also part of their kit?
Has anyone on this bbs had the (930M) conversion performed on their car? If you have, is there any chance you could grab the free PC software available from Motec's website and then download the settings from your car so we could look at them?

--jason andreas
1993 964RSA

 

I was very sceptical about that power figure from ‘just’ an airflow meter and chip upgrade on an n/a engine.

My recently purchased ’92 964 RS has a Roock built engine, consisting: 3.8lt conversion, ‘Cup’ cams, larger diameter throttle body, 1st muffler by-pass ‘Cup’ pipe, K&N air filter and Roock remapped ECU. The engine has been dyno’ed at 315hp. It also retains the catalyst & stock 2nd muffler, and the flap valve air flow meter; it is Michael Roock’s opinion that the standard air flow meter makes the car easier to drive on the street in this configuration. The car is also fitted with an additional RSR oil cooler.

Andy P.

 

Andy P

The 930 motorsport motec conversion consists of the following: 6 x new high flow injectors (standard ones are only good for about 300bhp) new competition engine sensors, Motec management unit and a lot of programmining. There is probably more that is done but I guess 930 motorsport would be the ones to confirm this.

The main advantage of the Motec unit over the standard unit is that it can provide sequencial injection - in other words the injector injects fuel into the cylinder just as the valve opens - so the fuel atomisies better in the cylinder. Also the fuel is more precisely metered so you get better combustion. The standard Bosch system meters the fuel in to the manifold long before the valve opens and the fuel is sucked in to the cylinder as the piston is on the down stroke, as opposed to being squirted in under pressure as the valve opens. This is the modern way of getting a cleaned leaner burn. The original Bosch system is an old system by today's standards which works very well but is limited if obtaining more horsepower is the aim.

I do find all this very frustrating as there are many Tuners out there: AMD, JZ, 930 Motorsport etc who all seem to have their own opinions and views on this subject and they all say that there method is the best.

I guess its down to "you pays your money and you takes your choice"

Thanks for all your replies on this subject.

 

George [quote] Interestingly a specialist who serviced mine was suprised that it was "only" pushing out 270 bhp as they thought it felt quicker than aa AMD hot film converted car which was reputed to push out the magical 300 bhp.

<hr></blockquote>

930 motorsport told me they were suprised at the dyno results they obtained with my car and told me that driving it to the dyno he felt it had similar power to a 964RS.
Since having a 964RS clutch/LWF fitted the car "feels" far more powerful although RWBHP ought to be the same. A 964RS is also usefully lighter.
Just food for thought

 

Apart from the power /weight advantage of a 964RS over the C2 I think the lighter flywheel makes it feel even quicker due to the faster initial response to the throtle.

Interesting to see it used as a daily driver; just shows how well engineered Porsches are really. I must admit I don't think I'd have the energy or a licence long enough if I tried. I've been lucky to drive and own all sorts of fast machinery but none made me want to thrash them as soon as I started them up quite like an RS!!

My only bugbear is the snappy wet weather handling.

 

G (tron)

RE: MOTEC - You do it first, I'll watch and learn, and then do it myself if yours works out OK!

RE: 993RS - don't!

P

 

[quote] My only bugbear is the snappy wet weather handling. <hr></blockquote>

I found that out to my cost, I lost mine on a drying road, it went without warning and the insurance claim ended up pricing me out of an RS for a few years!!

Lesson - the car is much better than my limited ability, but still an unbelievable experience, but always treat it with respect, never play unless you really have big run off areas!!!!

But....better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all!!!!

<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />