RSA/964 - 275s on the rear?
12-14-2001, 03:53 AM
#16
Race Car
Good deal Rich, you made the right decision...now, when you wear out the 265s (from all those "hole-shots" you're planning on doing at your region's concours events 
)...you can then decide if you want to upgrade to 275s. Seriously, only for a moment, once you go through a set of 265s, you will certainly know if you have room for another 10mm or so.
My "ample" clearance is about a pinkey's width, whatever that is (no, I don't have fat stubby little fingers!) - so, maybe 1/2" or so from the rear fenderlip? OH yeah, the lowering, with the car on a level surface, the fenderlip is just about even with the tread surface of the tire, pretty much no gap...in the rear, fronts have about a 3/4" gap - the stance of my car pretty much equals the other 964s I've seen.
As far as the Kumho ECTSA 700 track tires...I dunno...maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to figure them out. I have run two events on them, one at Summit Point, W.V., one at Roebling Roads, Ga. At Summit I was fairly happy with them, once I got pressures to around 36 lbs front and 38 lbs rear, cold...and my swaybars adjusted to suit the track - tight! But I hated them at Roebling...same swaybar setup as Summit, maybe that was the problem, but another thing, I can't find anything that suggests how to run your pressures in them, I am used to Hoosiers, these things got GREASY as hell about 2/3 through a 1/2 hr session!
Now, in the tire's defense...I have JUST changed to them, this is a fairly new car to me, with every track event I have with this car I am getting faster, seriously...I believe...okay, no joking!! ...AND, I am so very, very used to Hoosiers, which stick like glue, but aren't supposed to last as long as these new Kumhos??
I say try them! They're quite a bit cheaper than Hoosiers, and we could get all sorts of opinions flying around about them. If we all think they stink, then that would be that...but I'm sure they have some great qualities, I just have to find them.
)...you can then decide if you want to upgrade to 275s. Seriously, only for a moment, once you go through a set of 265s, you will certainly know if you have room for another 10mm or so.My "ample" clearance is about a pinkey's width, whatever that is (no, I don't have fat stubby little fingers!) - so, maybe 1/2" or so from the rear fenderlip? OH yeah, the lowering, with the car on a level surface, the fenderlip is just about even with the tread surface of the tire, pretty much no gap...in the rear, fronts have about a 3/4" gap - the stance of my car pretty much equals the other 964s I've seen.
As far as the Kumho ECTSA 700 track tires...I dunno...maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to figure them out. I have run two events on them, one at Summit Point, W.V., one at Roebling Roads, Ga. At Summit I was fairly happy with them, once I got pressures to around 36 lbs front and 38 lbs rear, cold...and my swaybars adjusted to suit the track - tight! But I hated them at Roebling...same swaybar setup as Summit, maybe that was the problem, but another thing, I can't find anything that suggests how to run your pressures in them, I am used to Hoosiers, these things got GREASY as hell about 2/3 through a 1/2 hr session!
Now, in the tire's defense...I have JUST changed to them, this is a fairly new car to me, with every track event I have with this car I am getting faster, seriously...I believe...okay, no joking!! ...AND, I am so very, very used to Hoosiers, which stick like glue, but aren't supposed to last as long as these new Kumhos??
I say try them! They're quite a bit cheaper than Hoosiers, and we could get all sorts of opinions flying around about them. If we all think they stink, then that would be that...but I'm sure they have some great qualities, I just have to find them.
12-14-2001, 11:37 AM
#17
Intermediate
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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hold on a minute. you have a 'pinky's' clearance between your tire and the fender? man, i need to call tirerack and change that order back to 275s! a 1/2" is plenty of room.
what type of suspension setup are you running jeff to get that stance? i doubt i want to be that low, i'm just curious. as it is, i have plenty (1.5") of adjustment left in the rear, but my front perches are at the bottom of the threads. this is all with a stock RSA suspension. with the H&R springs that i have for the car, it will supposedly drop my front up to 1.4-1.5", which looks like it will leave something like a 1" gap still (not looking at the car at the moment). the stock ride height (bumper regs) on these cars is WAY too high.
as for the kumhos, when they got "greasy" after 40 minutes or so, what heat cycle were you on? was this their first time on the track or had they been heat cycled a few times already? i know that my hoosiers used to feel the same way during their 1st and 2nd heat cycles. after that, they became pretty consistent. this was also during 15-20 lap sprint races at summit point. we changed to 20 lap races for 1 season. a 20 lap race would be about 29 minutes for the front runners. i know some people question 'initial' heat cycling, but did you do anything like this? all the tire manufacturers suggest it for their tires. i used to run my hoosiers during a practice session the race before i needed to run them in a race and i could tell a difference in consistency and certainly in how many heat cycles i could get out of the tires. 72 hours is the 'suggested' time between initial heat cycle and use in a race. i've run kumhos on the track, but most of the time i was running them in autox events. i found them to wear extremely well and give very fast times. i turned FTD (back with the BMW club in an E30 M3) more than a few times against people running all the top tires. because of my experience with the tires, and friends who were kumho backed drivers, i'm a pretty big fan of the tires. i'm sure their new design will turn out to be a good tire. it will probably not be as sticky as a hoosier/GSCS, but i don't think that's what they're shooting for. their price point and tire life (similar to the RA1) have always made them a very competitive tire, depending on your needs. if you're doing DEs, it's the tire i would run. if you're racing, and you want/need to be at the front, then you more than likely will have to run the hoosiers or the goodyears. i'm sure we'll hear more about this tire this coming season. i know i'll be on my first set of them.
it may not be as easy with kumho, but try to talk to a kumho rep about your tires and see if they have any suggestions. when i was racing, i'd talk about my tires with the hoosiers guy, at the races, just to get that last 1/10 of a second (for me) out of them. he actually used to ask me what i was doing too, because competitors of mine, in the same car (friends of mine actually) were complaining about tire wear and the tires 'going off' and he wanted to know what i was doing with my tires (camber, pressures, heat cycles, etc.).
good luck with the kumhos jeff. maybe we'll see eachother at a local event sometime.
what type of suspension setup are you running jeff to get that stance? i doubt i want to be that low, i'm just curious. as it is, i have plenty (1.5") of adjustment left in the rear, but my front perches are at the bottom of the threads. this is all with a stock RSA suspension. with the H&R springs that i have for the car, it will supposedly drop my front up to 1.4-1.5", which looks like it will leave something like a 1" gap still (not looking at the car at the moment). the stock ride height (bumper regs) on these cars is WAY too high.
as for the kumhos, when they got "greasy" after 40 minutes or so, what heat cycle were you on? was this their first time on the track or had they been heat cycled a few times already? i know that my hoosiers used to feel the same way during their 1st and 2nd heat cycles. after that, they became pretty consistent. this was also during 15-20 lap sprint races at summit point. we changed to 20 lap races for 1 season. a 20 lap race would be about 29 minutes for the front runners. i know some people question 'initial' heat cycling, but did you do anything like this? all the tire manufacturers suggest it for their tires. i used to run my hoosiers during a practice session the race before i needed to run them in a race and i could tell a difference in consistency and certainly in how many heat cycles i could get out of the tires. 72 hours is the 'suggested' time between initial heat cycle and use in a race. i've run kumhos on the track, but most of the time i was running them in autox events. i found them to wear extremely well and give very fast times. i turned FTD (back with the BMW club in an E30 M3) more than a few times against people running all the top tires. because of my experience with the tires, and friends who were kumho backed drivers, i'm a pretty big fan of the tires. i'm sure their new design will turn out to be a good tire. it will probably not be as sticky as a hoosier/GSCS, but i don't think that's what they're shooting for. their price point and tire life (similar to the RA1) have always made them a very competitive tire, depending on your needs. if you're doing DEs, it's the tire i would run. if you're racing, and you want/need to be at the front, then you more than likely will have to run the hoosiers or the goodyears. i'm sure we'll hear more about this tire this coming season. i know i'll be on my first set of them.
it may not be as easy with kumho, but try to talk to a kumho rep about your tires and see if they have any suggestions. when i was racing, i'd talk about my tires with the hoosiers guy, at the races, just to get that last 1/10 of a second (for me) out of them. he actually used to ask me what i was doing too, because competitors of mine, in the same car (friends of mine actually) were complaining about tire wear and the tires 'going off' and he wanted to know what i was doing with my tires (camber, pressures, heat cycles, etc.).
good luck with the kumhos jeff. maybe we'll see eachother at a local event sometime.
12-17-2001, 01:29 AM
#18
Race Car
I'm sure we have seen each other at local events Rich...bring that RSA to one of our events! I Co-Chair the track program for First Settlers @VIR, but attend just about every other regions events as well...email me if you want our dates for next year, just got them. They will also be posted on Trackschedule.com Coco Strayer's website.
Like I said, I'm sure these Kumhos can work great, I had pretty good luck with them at Summit, but at Roebling they were REAL greasy, I had one event (@Summit) on them before trekking down to Savannah for "The Dark Side" event. It was pretty warm at Summit and Roebling, so not much temp. difference there, maybe track surface or humidity??
Again, I think I just need to read up on them a bit more, maybe if we get more guys on here writing their opinions/reviews on them I could get an idea of what I may be doing wrong...another suggestion was that I was running my sway bars too tight for Roebling, being that it's not as tight a track as Summit, and little to NO elevation changes.
Rich, I'll have to get a better idea of the fitment on my 275mm Kumho ECSTA track tires and get back w/you...I'm currently on a two month "track haitus" - so it may be awhile before I bolt them on again. Maybe the "pinkey" theory was a bit of an exaggeration??
I'm currently trying to add downforce via an RSA one piece tail and front "bow-plane" spoiler, then I'm attacking the alignment issue again...so that may involve bolting them on - if so I'll get technical for ya!
Keep in mind, the ECSTA 700s are a bit thinner than the V700s, compare the specs on Tire Rack's website - so the ECSTA 700 in a 275 has a little more clearance.
Like I said, I'm sure these Kumhos can work great, I had pretty good luck with them at Summit, but at Roebling they were REAL greasy, I had one event (@Summit) on them before trekking down to Savannah for "The Dark Side" event. It was pretty warm at Summit and Roebling, so not much temp. difference there, maybe track surface or humidity??
Again, I think I just need to read up on them a bit more, maybe if we get more guys on here writing their opinions/reviews on them I could get an idea of what I may be doing wrong...another suggestion was that I was running my sway bars too tight for Roebling, being that it's not as tight a track as Summit, and little to NO elevation changes.
Rich, I'll have to get a better idea of the fitment on my 275mm Kumho ECSTA track tires and get back w/you...I'm currently on a two month "track haitus" - so it may be awhile before I bolt them on again. Maybe the "pinkey" theory was a bit of an exaggeration??
I'm currently trying to add downforce via an RSA one piece tail and front "bow-plane" spoiler, then I'm attacking the alignment issue again...so that may involve bolting them on - if so I'll get technical for ya!
Keep in mind, the ECSTA 700s are a bit thinner than the V700s, compare the specs on Tire Rack's website - so the ECSTA 700 in a 275 has a little more clearance.