DonW-Cape Cod

Well, like I said before. We have the 02 Cab and I bought a 91 Cab (link in signature) to keep in Florida so we didn't have to haul the 996 back and forth from the Cape to Naples.

I hadn't driven a 964 in years...since my Speedster, and I tell you that not only does the 964 look better than my modded 996, but it's a lot more fun. The ONLY thing I don't care for is taking the boot on and off...so we leave it on and stay home on a rainy day. The 91 is completely stock and goes like stink when needed.. Also the stock exhaust system sounds great. I even like the D90s and wouldn't even consider changing those. They give it a classic look

If I could find a cherry 93-94 964 Cab, I'd consider selling the 996.

Scooter92

1993 C2 - $74,190 - $89,350 (Update Date: 16-OCT-03)
see: http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Porsche_...11_Convertible

1995 993 - $61,100 - $75,700 (Update Date: 16-OCT-03)
see: http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Porsche_1995_Porsche_911

As far as build, I can't find the data, but I believe the 993 is not hand built at all, while the 964 was at least partially hand assembled. This would explain the price difference. Maybe someone has the data? I am not being argumentative, just curious.

Olav A.

Wasn't that the year or years Porsche almost went bankrupt and they lowered the prices to stimulate sales.

I read the 993 save Porsche's bacon.

I think they both were partially handmade because if you look, for example, at the front fenders they are bolted in with hex nuts and all the screws are Philips on hidden plastic snap ons or machine rivets.

Kinda like signs of some handy craft going on there.

Millemiglia

I have to disagree, I am a long-time subscriber to 911 & Porsche World and I think they have re-evalued the 964 over the last couple of years.
It is my opinion that they seem to write down the 993 as too expensive and that you really should go for a 996 if you want a newer car than a 964.
The funny thing is that I also have a Ferrari 348 which have also carried a undeserved reputation as a ugly-duckling. But I think both the 964 and the 348 is being re-evaluated and are getting a status as a real classic on their own.

DonW-Cape Cod

I believe that the 964 series was the least produced model of the "newer" Porsches..at least in North America. That may also influence pricing, plus the fact that the demographics furing those years were such that more of the folks that bought them were enthusiasts than there are today. Does that make any sense?

R6XTERRA

I love the 348...I think its a great lookin car. I hope to eventually own a 348tb or a 355 in addition to my P-car. Maybe in about five years or so.

kris

Harold (ex-964 with nice website and ex-993) also bought a '92 348, weird that those cars have such an attraction to P-drivers or perhaps not so weird

Adrian

Dear Don,
What influenced these prices (which are garbage by the way) was that the VERY few 964s delivered to the USA in model years 1993 and 1994 were heavily optioned up to make them attractive. Similar models were sent to the UK also heavily optioned up. The Targa Florio immediately springs to mind.
It is very hard to compare genuine prices 15 years on but in 1990 the base price for a 964 Carrera 2 Coupe was 103,500DM.
The Turbo was 190,250DM in 1992.
The RSA was $US53,900 in 1993 which was 10 grand cheaper than the equivalent Carrera 2 Coupe so in 1993 the standard coupe was around 63 grand in basic form.
The base price in model year 1995 for the standard 993 Carrera Coupe was 137,030DM.
Standard dealer style options for the 993 easily added 20,000DM to the price.
The statement provided earlier about prices was way way off. I suspect it compared a highly optioned 964 with a base model 993.

The last word about this hand built nonsense. In August 1993 the 993 joined the 964 on the production line. Same line same assembly process. To claim that one was hand built and the other is not is absolute garbage. Neither were truly hand built. They are assembled from a miriad of parts.
It is true that the production line changed slightly when the 996 joined the 993 on the line but the assembly process was only sped up by having completed components arriving "Just in time" for assembly rather than assembling them onsite which ended with the 993.
I have a series of production line pictures I have used in my 911SC book and in my 993 book. You would be hard pressed to put a date on the images if I posted them here based on very similar content. The only clue is the image quality and the stands used to hold the 993 versus the 911SC.
The engines for both models were hand built albeit with the 993 being a more efficient process.
Ciao,
Adrian

Jay H

Adrian:

Is it safe to assume the Boxster and 996 models had much higher gross profit per unit than the 993 and 964 models? If that is true, did production methods change to help with this? I also assume parts costs were reduced as well as improving economies also had a hand in this.

Just curious (and it's interesting...!).

Jay
90 964

JBH

The 964 was a significant change and departure from the 911 design. The addition of power steering, elimination of torsion bars, more creature comforts, and stylistic changes to the exterior and interior put a lot of people off. A lot of diehards believe the last 911 was built in 1989 and everything that follows is a compromise brought on by marketers and bean counters.

The 964 had its share of mechanical problems in those early years offering proof to some, that the company ruined a good thing. Given the test of time, the 964 has shown itself to be very good model that transitioned Porsche into a much more modern company.

Jay H

I've got a couple of Road and Track (or Car and Driver...can't remember) test drive articles from the late 1980's. The guys reviewing those last 3.2 Carrera's felt they were just too 'old' in feel and wondered when Porsche would finally update the 911. Guess the 964 didn't come too soon according to those test drivers...

I also have a ton of Road and Track articles of test drives on the then new 964 and they were ALL glowing reviews of the car (C4, C2, Tip, Manual, Turbo, Cab, etc). Most all test reports stated that the 964 kept a lot of the feel of the older cars, but yet brought the car up to date as compared to what the competition was building at the time.

I bet Porsche would be long out of business had they kept the 3.2 Carrera going into the 90's... I always think of the 964 as Porsches first (almost) all new 911 since 1965...

Adrian

Dear Jay,
The per unit profit margin went significantly higher for the 986 and 996. I hear figures of around 20-30% but you will never get them confirmed of course.
One huge significant change that Porsche introduced was in the supplier/vendor region. They reduced the numbers in 1995 down from circa 900 to 300. They also put the squeeze on them.
For the 986 and 996 components that used to be manufactured by Porsche inhouse were outsourced. This also reduced costs. The delivery of the whole assemblies such the the entire transmission reduced assembly time and therefore costs.
The production line efficiencies were introduced with the 964. They were improved over the life of the 993 series and produced the required results with the 986 and 996.
Porsche manufactured over double the number of 996s as compared to 993s using the same basic production line over a slightly longer period of time.
For the Boxster they used two factories of course.
Ciao,
Adrian.

mxbanker

Adrian,
Bought your "enthusast's companion" about a week ago- great product.

mxbanker
Current,
1991 c4 Cab

Prior,
1971 911T

Adrian

The next two are even better. I learned a lot from doing the first one.
Ciao,
Adrian.

CraigyB

From my point of view, you shouldn't necessarily view the 964 through the capitalist lens. In other words, just because it is cheaper to buy than the 993/996 etc
(or in their terms, lessof an investment), doesn't necessarily make it any worse. This is the big mistake of certain magazines/journalists.
I would challenge anyone who thinks the 964 is a substandard 911 to look at the number of posts made on this website compared to the other 911 variants, and you'll find the number of post as follows:-

964, 103,234
993, 264,668
996, 112,361

Now compare to the amount of 964 cars made,993s and 996s made. Then the 964 probably has a greater ratio of Porsche enthusiasts to Porsche posers than any other model, and anyone who wants to knock the 964 and still sell magazines etc had better not be worried about losing a potential 25% of their business .... Rant over..