Jim in St.Louis

Has anyone put the 993 6 speed in a 964? If so how did it go?

Adrian

Dear Jim,
Anatol here in Switzerland has. I think he posted about this some days ago. Hopefully he will pick up this thread (I know he is very busy so it might take him some time). Maybe you can find a thread from Anatol, he has posted a few times and drop him an email. If all esle fails, drop me an email and I will forward it to him,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Christer

Jim

Found this from Randall

[quote]Originally posted by Randall Granaas:
<strong>

I also had a 993 6-speed installed at the same time as the 993 engine. A fabulous upgrade, and pretty much just a bolt on--at least for a C2. I think it's more complicated on a C4. To reflect the extra gear from inside the car, I bought a 993tt titanium capped shift **** from Parts Heaven to replace the old 5-speed unit. Adds a nice, subtle touch to the interior.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Adrian

Its a lot more complicated in a C4. They cannot be fitted to a 964C4 unless you undertake some serious major surgery to the 993 box and the C4. The G64 transmission is somewhat different to the G50. A few added extra bits in a G64 which were never required for the G50 or even for the 993 C4 which uses a viscous coupling. However I have learned of a 964C4 owner inthe UK who had a complete 993 C4 system installed into his 964. Must have had very deep pockets,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Jeff Curtis

Jim, as others have stated, it can be done...and from what I understand it's a straightforward conversion.

I've considered this, but want to look into gear ratios. I'd be interested to find out if the six speed has the same final drive ratio...then that would mean that the six gears are a tighter ratio...to end up with the same final drive ratio - which would be GOOD!

That would yield a pretty good increase in "quickness" through the gears - providing GREAT benefit on the track, not to mention those light to light grudge matches.

Anatol

Hi,
Yes, I have had a 993 six-speeder installed this winter. And I have to say it was worth every of the thousands of CHF. Acceleration is FAR better. Like 50 hp on top of my existing 290.

Here are the ratios:

G50 20 (6 speed)
1: 3,818
2: 2,0476
3: 1,4074
4: 1,1176
5: 0,9211
6: 0,775
final: 3,444

my C2 G50 04 for Switzerland was:
1: 3,154
2: 1,895
3: 1,333
4: 1,029
5: 0,868
final: 3,444

I bought the gearbox (new old stock) form RUF in Germany and it was no problem to install at all. Only some minor fittings need to be swapped but nothing difficult or expensive. Before the car was very lazy through hairpins - due to tuning to 290 hp there is not that much low down torque. With the new gearbox acceleration is crazy. However, I preferred the more precise feeling of the old five speeder. But at the same time the six speeder is easier to shift into first and second at higher speeds (braking into a bend) due to double conus synchros.

I can only recommend the swap. Go for it!

Anatol
C2 1991

Randall G.

Hi Anatol,

Did you have the G50/20 installed, or the G50/21? The G50/21 was installed everywhere except the US, Austria and Switzerland, till the '97 model. In '97, all countries received the G50/20 gearbox.

Here are the ratios for the G50/21.

1st - 3.818
2nd - 2.150
3rd - 1.560
4th - 1.242
5th - 1.024
6th - 0.820

I'm 99% certain that the final drive is the same = 3.444. But, I'm not 100% certain, as this information was gleaned from Robin Sun's website, and did not list the final drive explicitly.

Speaking of Robin's site, an interesting write-up of a 993 G50/20 to 993 G50/21 conversion (popular for 993 owners) can be found here:

<a href="http://p-car.com/gearfaq/" target="_blank">http://p-car.com/gearfaq/</a>

If I had it to do over again, I would seriously consider paying the extra $$ to get the Euro gearbox. At the time I had the 6-speed put in my car (before I knew Rennlist existed), I had no idea the Euro gear box had shorter/closer ratios.

If anyone has a copy of Bruce A.'s Performance Handbook handy, the U.S. 964 G50 (along with all the 993) gear ratios are tabled at the back of the transmission section. If no one beats me to it, I'll list the U.S. 964 G50 ratios when I get home from work this evening.

Anatol

Hi, Randall

Indeed I have the G50 20 gearbox and I was advised to buy this one because of the allegedly fragile third gear of the G50 21. Furthermore, I was happy to buy a new gearbox for a very attractive price. However, even the longer gears of the G50 20 are a big difference to the gearing of my G50 04 5-speeder I had before!

Ciao
Anatol
C2 1991

Irishdriver

The Car pictured on our home page <a href="http://www.pca-gr.de" target="_blank">www.pca-gr.de</a> is running with a six speed box. Contact me directly if you want the e-mail address of the owner.

He's happy (and fast) with the conversion.

Adrian, the 964 C4 six speed conversion I saw was in 911 and Porsche world where the guy fitted a complete 993 C4 drivetrain to a 964 Turbo 2 and changed the car from 2 Wheel drive to the altogether more natural 4 wheel drive.

Now that sounds like a really fun conversion.

Randall G.

Here are the U.S. 964 G50/05 ratios:

1st - 3.500
2nd - 2.059
3rd - 1.407
4th - 1.086
5th - 0.868

final drive = 3.333

And, the G50/21's final drive = 3.444.

Anatol .... the ratios on your old G50/04 are fairly close to the RS Euro G50/10 (first and second are exactly the same):

1st - 3.154
2nd - 1.895
3rd - 1.407
4th - 1.086
5th - 0.868

final drive = 3.444

To be more precise, the G50/10 is a mix of the G50/04's 1st & 2nd, with the G50/05 (US) 3rd, 4th & 5th.

Targamike

Stupid question- At what point do we 964 guys (and girls too) stop pouring unrecoverable money into our 964s and just trade (dare I say upgrade?) to a 993?
I myself have never even driven one for fear that I won't be able to look at my car the same ever again.

Randall G.

Hey Mike,

Some of us really prefer (love) the 964's styling, so a 993 isn't the preferred option.

Anyway, pouring unrecoverable $$ into a car is certainly not limited to 964s. Actually, I think the guys on the 993 board spend more money on mods than we do.

Ruairidh

Hey Mike, I'm with Randall on this one. I need an open car in my garage and try as I mightI cannot come to terms with the shape of the 993 cab and the 996 - fine as it is - doesn't answer my needs for a toy that looks like a 911.

Targamike

Yeah- I guess you guys are right. I suppose if I had a 993, I'd still be trying to make it faster, lighter, etc.

johnfm

I'd love to get into this thread, but I've got a Tip with just 4 gears. I'd love the 6 speeds, but can't be done with the whole clutch thing anymore (really got used to high performance, but lazy, tiptronic). Now, if there was a semi-automatic 6-speed upgrade lurking out there.........