Fadz

Hi

I am looking forward to buy a 964 WTL cabrio.
Does anyone has the car? Can I see some pictures of what I am buying (Pictures) and is it worth it to spend 35k us$ for a 92 model done 40,000km? I mean is it a reasonable price coz I really love the car?

Thank You,

fadz
C4S/02 <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Adrian

Dear Fadi,
Do you mean a 964 Carrera 2 Turbolook Cab. If you do it is worth far more than 35K US dollars. They are quite rare. I would take extreme care and get a photograph of the label on the underside of the luggage compartment lid first. 35K smells like a conversion or a wreck to me. Need far more details first.
Ciao,
Adriuan
911C4

Fadz

Hi Adrian,

I guess it's the WTL 964 carrera 2 1992 like the picture below. What do you mean by the underside label, is there something mentioned about the car specs.? Moreover I work in Dubai and I am buying the car from Germany, do you think I can trust the seller?

Thanks
fadz - C4S/02

Adrian

Dear Fadz,
There is a label stuck on the underside of the luggae compartment lid near the front latch. This tells us a lot about the car. VIN, eng type, model type, original country of delivery, options andmost importantly the Turbolook option number M491. A copy of this label should always be in the service record manual as well.
It is not for me to say who you should trust or not. I do not know the seller and I do not know yourself of course. I always recommend tread with extreme caution.
There were only around 750 of these Carrera 2 TLs built. You need the VIN to determine model year and that it has the correct Cabriolet serial number prefix.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: I still say the price is fishy. It is too low for me. If the label is missing as well this suggests a repaint.

joey bagadonuts

Fadi,

While it seems you are very interested in making this purchase, I feel your enthusiasm may be pushing you into an imprudent decision. Certainly, no one on this board could tell you if this seller is trustworthy unless they had a personal relationship with the individual or business.

If YOU do not know their reputation, then you need to investigate further. Perhaps ask for references or meet them in person. Buying a used Porsche is a little more challenging than a new car and seeing the car in person, knowing its history and actually driving it are things you want to do prior to making any commitment.
Good luck but please go slowly. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Fadz

Adrian,

Thank You, I really appreciate the infos. They really help. One more thing I would like to ask you, How much would you think a car like that worth + or - 10%.

Joey,

Thanks for the advise, I will keep in mind what you mentioned.I appreciate all.

Thank You Guys

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

fadz C4S/02

Adrian

Dear Fadi,
A genuine C2 TL with low mileage in my opinion would start circa $US45,000. Obviously condition plays a role but from the ones I have seen they are generally well looked after. If it is a German delivery unit it will most likely not have airconditioning either. These are quite rare 964s. Similar to the RS Americas.
You have to be aware that Germany is a hot bed of conversions. I have even seen 993 Speedsters advertised. They turned out to be 1989 Speedsters converted to look like a 993. I certainly do not recommend you purchase sight unseen from another country unless you have very deep pockets and money and the wasting of it is not a problem. These C2 TLs do come on the market occassionally and never for 35K unless something is terribly wrong or it is part of legal tangle. To me it would be worth a trip to see the 964 for yourself before doing anything else.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: I am quite sensitive to this because I recently discovered a fake/replica 911 RS that would have been shipped to the USA for 60K plus shipping and taxes etc. It had been built up around a RS Touring chassis, motor and gearbox. It was a nice job but not worth the money being asked and it was not what it was being purported to be.

Fadz

I would rather make a visit before taking action like you advised. Hoping it will be a clean car in all meanings. Moreover I have checked the market price on internet in Germany and most of the 964 WTL ranges between 32k EU to 40k EU maximum, accordingly. Anyway like you said I should make a visit and I will try to contact you by e mail from there if i need any extra infos.

Thanks & Regards
fadz

speedster 94

hallo
It is true that this Cars go between 30-37/38 $
in Germany . Depending on Color,mileage, History .
I would think that a Wimbledon green/aqua colored
Car ( color combo speaks for WTL) is about Market value with that Mileage . If the Car would be Black/black it would be about 37/39 $. I am not sure if that Car was limited Production here,i dont think so ,but Adrian will know.
A very clear indication for a real Turbolook is 2
Metalbeams from the Front of the Gearbox to the
Tunnel (chassis).I can look at the Car if you want and if it is not too far ,i am near Cologne
,send me a email .
Harald

Adrian

Dear Harald,
The turbo look C2 cabs were a very limited production run. Circa 700-749 and they were shipped world wide except to the USA. 250 versions called the American Roadster were shipped to the USA and to other countries that demand US versions. The very last ROW C2TL was converted into the America GS and this is in the USA.
You also have to factor in manual versus tips as well.
The very first step is to determine it is genuine. A large amount of what is found on the internet are actually conversions. FVD manufactured wide body kits for the 964 series.
I know for a fact that many of these limited edition models are in the hands of collectors. The really good examples are more likely to be offered at major auction events rather than advertised on the internet.
Anyway, my main point is that one needs to tread with extreme caution when looking at these limited editions models from afar. A lot of people have been fooled over the years and many POs genuinely believe they have an original or it was never involved in an accident and sadly they can and have been misinformed.
Here in Switzerland two "genuine" Turbo Ss were advertised for sale. They turned out to be 1991 964 Turbos, with 355 HP engine kits installed and lowered. I have already mentioned the recent RS incident that I discovered as part of a PPI investigation.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: Interior colours. Black/Black is traditionally sold in Germany and Switzerland. Other interior mixes are obviously sold but Black/Black is by far the most popular. This is where the label under the trunk lid is so important. It will tell me the original country of original. The external colour is also a clue. Wimbledon green is not the most popular colour around these parts. I would also have to check when this Green became available. The wide bodies or TLs I have personally seen here around tend to be metallic violet, black roof and black/black full leather interiors and no aircon.

Fadz

Thank you guys,

I really aprreciate all the valuable stuff you mentioned above, specially Adrian (a moving encyclopaedia), thank you Adrian, I will always ask for your help whenever I need it.

Thank you speedster for the infos. too as well as for your kind voluntary. I don't really know if you are somewhere around the car. The car is shown by Mr. Thomas Grundman <a href="http://www.auto-salon-singen.de/Cars/Weg.htm" target="_blank">http://www.auto-salon-singen.de/Cars/Weg.htm</a> .It would be a great favor if you can look at the car, that's only if it's not so far from you.

Regards
fadz - C4S/02

Adrian

Dear Fadi,
I just checked out the site and could not find the vehicle you mentioned. This is not licenced dealer by the way. All the Speedsters he has on display are ALL conversions. They are not what I classify as genuine.
Singen is a fair way from Koeln by the way. Personally I would keep shopping around.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

John Miles

Hi Fadz.
Are you the same Fadi who emailed me earlier this week about your plans to set up a business importing Porsches into UAE?
John

gregC2

I went to the site to see the car. What an inventory there appears to be there; 959's, old Ferrari's, other cars. Here's the dumb question; what's it mean that this is not an "authorized" dealer? Amazing the cars that are shown there. Are those 959's "conversions" also? <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
(p.s.) the Site that is listed for all the cars, I.E. seems to load the pictures and that site much faster than Netscape. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Mr. C4

Hey Fadz,

I am also in the UAE (Abu Dhabi), are you a member of the Porsche Club UAE?

Ciao,

Johannes E. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />