Reliability
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From: New Hampshire
Reliability
I pick my 964 turbo up this weekend and am starting to get worried. I've gotten addicted to reading these boards and I read almost all of them and it seams that people are always having to take apart their engine or re-seal everything etc, etc. Is this just because these people need help/advice or is this rather common. Are there many of you out there that have had the car run perfect for 1000's of miles? Do most of you have these problems. My 964 has 38k miles, I don't really want to have some major problems for atleast awhile!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Reston, VA
Ian - Years ago, when I first started participating in the Porsche forums (Pelican Parts and Potomac PCA), I had the identical worries and reactions as you - I had an SC then, with about 100k miles. It finally dawned on me that by reading the forums everyday, I was seeing only those posts written by people having questions or problems. The exceptions, if you will. It was concentrated reading - much like owning a Porsche repair shop, in that all you see is problems/repairs. In fact, I drove that SC for another 40k miles before selling it last month. Sure, I had repairs during that period, but not every 1000 miles, more like 10k or 15k, I had a major expense, like an alternator, or a starter, etc. But thanks to this and other Porsche forums (fora?), I knew what to expect and how to fix it, or how much it was going to cost at the shop. My new 93 C2 has 46k miles, and I expect to drive it quite a long time before encountering major problems or expenses. You never know, but the odds are in our favor.
Chuck
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Chuck
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From: TX
I've only had my 964 for a little over a year, put around 4K miles on it, including around 13 days on the track, and I haven't had anything break. Doesn't mean I didn't put some money into it, however, that has been, for the most part, track-related. I have around 52K on it. 964's (and our cousin 993's) are more complex than earlier 911's, and as such, when things do need attention, they can be more complex to resolve. Remember too that one of the values of these forums is to seek help taking care of our Porsches, so you'd expect to see the type of discussion you are seeing.
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From: Highland Park, IL
If it makes you feel any better, many well-maintained 964's have already had these issues addressed. Have you looked at the previous owner's receipts? My records contain a $5K tab for the DMF and reseal and I know, from eBay, that Andial did similar work on Scupper's car. Again, another big tab covered by the previous owner. 
On the other hand, if your car hasn't undergone such work, maybe it's because it doesn't need it! I think after 38K miles, the PO or his mechanic would have identified and corrected any leaks. It just might be possible that you've got a superb example which only needs fuel and oil to keep it running until your next 15K service.
Take a read of this recent thread about <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003008" target="_blank">Reseals and PPI's</a> if you haven't already. It provdies additional perspective and gives you another reason to rest easy over your recent purchase. By the way, congratulations!
On the other hand, if your car hasn't undergone such work, maybe it's because it doesn't need it! I think after 38K miles, the PO or his mechanic would have identified and corrected any leaks. It just might be possible that you've got a superb example which only needs fuel and oil to keep it running until your next 15K service.
Take a read of this recent thread about <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=003008" target="_blank">Reseals and PPI's</a> if you haven't already. It provdies additional perspective and gives you another reason to rest easy over your recent purchase. By the way, congratulations!
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From: Keswick, VA
I don't have a 964, but my dad does. His is a 93 C2. He's the original owner. The car now has 87K miles on it. Since 1998 it has been driven (by both of us in some cases) at at least 8 track events per year.
He hasn't had any major problems with the car. It still has the original clutch. It doesn't leak any oil. The gearbox developed a very small leak which will be addressed when the clutch is done. He did rebuild the brake calipers at the end of the 2000 season.
The car has truly performed flawlessly give the amount of track time it sees. Other than the selective spending (full B&B exhaust, H&R Cup suspension) the only real expenses have been the routine services (by the book), oil changes, several sets of brake pads, and a few sets of rotors.
I can't wait till the day he offers to sell it to me. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
He hasn't had any major problems with the car. It still has the original clutch. It doesn't leak any oil. The gearbox developed a very small leak which will be addressed when the clutch is done. He did rebuild the brake calipers at the end of the 2000 season.
The car has truly performed flawlessly give the amount of track time it sees. Other than the selective spending (full B&B exhaust, H&R Cup suspension) the only real expenses have been the routine services (by the book), oil changes, several sets of brake pads, and a few sets of rotors.
I can't wait till the day he offers to sell it to me. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
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From: Dundee, Scotland
The name 'forum' should be changed to scare 'em..yes of course these lists select for problems.
This has side effects - I am, sadly, often encouraged by other stories of other exotic marques' engines or gearboxes failing expensively...e.g. recent threads of new M3's failing spectacularly, and the following thread from Scoobynet, regarding an Impreza Turbo engine giving up at 28k miles, and some high running costs prior to that. (Sorry I don't know how to post the thread in a more user-friendly way)
Enjoy, you twisted souls...
<a href="http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681" target="_blank">http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681</a>
This has side effects - I am, sadly, often encouraged by other stories of other exotic marques' engines or gearboxes failing expensively...e.g. recent threads of new M3's failing spectacularly, and the following thread from Scoobynet, regarding an Impreza Turbo engine giving up at 28k miles, and some high running costs prior to that. (Sorry I don't know how to post the thread in a more user-friendly way)
Enjoy, you twisted souls...
<a href="http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681" target="_blank">http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681</a>
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From: Norfolk
[quote]Originally posted by Johnny G:
<strong>The name 'forum' should be changed to scare 'em..yes of course these lists select for problems.
This has side effects - I am, sadly, often encouraged by other stories of other exotic marques' engines or gearboxes failing expensively...e.g. recent threads of new M3's failing spectacularly, and the following thread from Scoobynet, regarding an Impreza Turbo engine giving up at 28k miles, and some high running costs prior to that. (Sorry I don't know how to post the thread in a more user-friendly way)
Enjoy, you twisted souls...
<a href="http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681" target="_blank">http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Re. the Subaru, surely £20K for similar performance to a £60K Porsche is asking for trouble? I realise I'm being simplistic but what do these guys expect?!
BR
Piers
<strong>The name 'forum' should be changed to scare 'em..yes of course these lists select for problems.
This has side effects - I am, sadly, often encouraged by other stories of other exotic marques' engines or gearboxes failing expensively...e.g. recent threads of new M3's failing spectacularly, and the following thread from Scoobynet, regarding an Impreza Turbo engine giving up at 28k miles, and some high running costs prior to that. (Sorry I don't know how to post the thread in a more user-friendly way)
Enjoy, you twisted souls...
<a href="http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681" target="_blank">http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?threadid=149681</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
Re. the Subaru, surely £20K for similar performance to a £60K Porsche is asking for trouble? I realise I'm being simplistic but what do these guys expect?!
BR
Piers
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From: Dundee, Scotland
My point was actually that even apparently reliable performance cars have achilles heels if you look at their forums/fora.
Getting O.T. here, but I am fairly sure the stock Impreza Turbo is pretty well renowned for bullet proof construction and reliability. JD Power wasnt a perfect survey, but is better than nothing.
To be fair to the Scooby people,as with other Marques often bought as grey imports, these cars are often bought from Japan tuned to the eyeballs, and then somebody tries to do London to Birmingham at 100mph...BOOM!
Not biased at all....
Getting O.T. here, but I am fairly sure the stock Impreza Turbo is pretty well renowned for bullet proof construction and reliability. JD Power wasnt a perfect survey, but is better than nothing.
To be fair to the Scooby people,as with other Marques often bought as grey imports, these cars are often bought from Japan tuned to the eyeballs, and then somebody tries to do London to Birmingham at 100mph...BOOM!
Not biased at all....
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Germany
Hey, This is getting out of control. There is no need to panic. My car is boringly reliable - as long as it is driven. Ocassional drivers get more unreliable. My neighbour starts his cabrio every summer and every summer he has a few problems as the car has been sitting since the previous autumn (thats fall for US guys).
This is a forum where we post problems and share solutions. It would be bloody boring if we all just posted a note every day saying my cars running fine. It would also result in a mega amount of mails.
...Of course none of us will ever mention the comfort we get from knowing there is always someone out there with worse problems than we have.
Keep the faith.
This is a forum where we post problems and share solutions. It would be bloody boring if we all just posted a note every day saying my cars running fine. It would also result in a mega amount of mails.
...Of course none of us will ever mention the comfort we get from knowing there is always someone out there with worse problems than we have.
Keep the faith.
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From: Parafield Gardens
Dear Ian,
A huge percentage that you read about on this 964 forum does not even apply to your 964 Turbo. There is a 964 turbo forum and the traffic level there is much lower. Lot less of them around. You have a CIS engine management system in the Turbo. There are some addtional electronic assistance untis installed.
The vast majority of people on this forum drive their 964s far more than you ever will as well, especially on the road. Turbos are different beasts to our normally aspirated 964s. Much simpler in many ways but more stressed in others. Also as Irish said the prime purpose of these "technical forums" is to discuss technical problems and "SOLVE" them. This is what we do.
Every auto no matter what it is or who built it has problems. They are full of moving bits and moving bits break. Nature of the beastie. The prime purpose of this forum is to help people keep their 964s runing and running and running. My C4 like Irishes is terribly boring. In the four years I have owned it there has only been two times when I preferred to fix it now rather than drive it. No time have I ever need to be towed or picked up on a flat bed. This happened twice with my 944 by the way.
Do not worry just enjoy. Remember a lot of problems are actually user induced and not design induced,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
A huge percentage that you read about on this 964 forum does not even apply to your 964 Turbo. There is a 964 turbo forum and the traffic level there is much lower. Lot less of them around. You have a CIS engine management system in the Turbo. There are some addtional electronic assistance untis installed.
The vast majority of people on this forum drive their 964s far more than you ever will as well, especially on the road. Turbos are different beasts to our normally aspirated 964s. Much simpler in many ways but more stressed in others. Also as Irish said the prime purpose of these "technical forums" is to discuss technical problems and "SOLVE" them. This is what we do.
Every auto no matter what it is or who built it has problems. They are full of moving bits and moving bits break. Nature of the beastie. The prime purpose of this forum is to help people keep their 964s runing and running and running. My C4 like Irishes is terribly boring. In the four years I have owned it there has only been two times when I preferred to fix it now rather than drive it. No time have I ever need to be towed or picked up on a flat bed. This happened twice with my 944 by the way.
Do not worry just enjoy. Remember a lot of problems are actually user induced and not design induced,
Ciao,
Adrian
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From: Dana Point, CA
I was thinking of buying a M3, but the blown engines have scared me away (that and the $50k/over MSRP purchase price). Besides the website keeping a running tab of blown engines, a couple regulars on the 993 board have had their M3 engines blow:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004793" target="_blank">Blown M3 Thread1</a>
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005047&p=" target="_blank">Blown M3 Thread2</a>
The early 964 (overblown) leaking head and failing DMF issues pale in comparison to engines blowing up at 10k miles, give or take.
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004793" target="_blank">Blown M3 Thread1</a>
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=005047&p=" target="_blank">Blown M3 Thread2</a>
The early 964 (overblown) leaking head and failing DMF issues pale in comparison to engines blowing up at 10k miles, give or take.
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From: dune acres, Indiana
Your Porsche will be as reliable as any other car, just more expensive to maintain. The real benefit is that they tend not to break when driven enthusiastically- something that can't be said for most other cars. I drove my 80SC to 50,000 miles with no problems, my 90c2Cab tip to 30,000 with only a fuel neck leak, my 91C4 to 95,000 with only 1 clutch, brakes, 1 heater fan, and one idle valve, my 99 Boxter to 15,000 miles with no problems, and my 02ttX50 to 10,000 miles with only a tire balance problem. My BMW850CSI has had far more problems.
I think most people run into problems from not driving enough. Storage often creates problems. The cars don't rust, don't leak, start in the cold, have good traction, and don't overheat in traffic. So, why not drive them? You've got a great car. Don't worry, be happy.
(my previous post about storage refers mostly to my race cars, and the Boxter which I just don't need during the winter)AS
I think most people run into problems from not driving enough. Storage often creates problems. The cars don't rust, don't leak, start in the cold, have good traction, and don't overheat in traffic. So, why not drive them? You've got a great car. Don't worry, be happy.
(my previous post about storage refers mostly to my race cars, and the Boxter which I just don't need during the winter)AS