Riccardo

Hi guys,

I just got off the phone with my garage (JZ Machtech for the UK Rennlisters) and, after explainig the problem I have with my clutch got some bad news.

Ok, so first the problem. Ever since I bought the car there has been some squeaking noise coming from around the engine area when I press the clutch pedal down. It has been getting slightly louder recently, and sounds a bit like something is seized (its an unpleasant metallic squeak). The noise is only present when the car is cold, I think.

Two or three times this weekend I also had to apply about twice as much force to remove the car from gear, usually at low speeds (up to 30 mph).

My mechanic's verdict is that the clutch release bearings have probably seized (the squeaking noise) and hence the clutch plate is not releasing properly. Thus, the clutch wears really quickly, which means I must also change the clutch. The bill will be a princely £850!

Worst thing is, the clutch was replaced about a year ago by the previous owner. Thing is, the garage which did that has now closed (gone bankrupt) so there is nobody to ask. It also seems likely that that garage might have used a non Porsche part (even if the part numbers match Porsche ones).

My question is, does anyone have any opinion on this? Should I give the go ahead to the work?

Any ideas / experience would be highly apreciated. Thanks in advance.

Adrian

Dear Riccardo,
I think you need to get it fixed properly. You just have to chalk this up to experience and a little bad luck. The comforting thing is that once fixed properly you will not have to worry anymore.
I would put the past behind. Do not think about it. If you trust these new people get it done. If you do not trust them get a second opinion,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Christer

Riccardo

I haven't got experience of this - although I assume my car will need a new clutch pretty soon (37k on this one so far) and I will be going to JZ Machtech to get it done.

Perhaps they can let you know once they have access to the clutch visually whether you need a new one? OK, so the labour charge will still be the same but you will save the money on the actual clutch (approx. £350). Either way though, it's a pain the ar*e.

I agree with Adrian - peace of mind can be a little expensive but well worth it. At least you (we) know that JZ are a good outfit, but IF you want a second opinion the only people I would go to are GT One. I have used them once before and these guys were very thorough and like to save you money without compromise. For example, I had a noisy blower fan which in OPC-land means buying the whole unit for around £220+VAT + fitting. GT-One suggested that they replace just the electric motor part and this cost around £150+VAT fitted.

Anyway, the choice is yours. Good luck and let us knwo what happens!

Randall G.

Hi Riccardo,

Considering that the clutch was replaced about a year ago, the sticking-in-gear problem is quite possibly due to improperly sealed/lubed components (in particular, the center shaft) during reassembly. The shop manual specifies a specific lube/sealant, and if it is not applied, the transmission center shaft and clutch center corrode. The corrosion causes the two to bind, making it difficult to remove the car from gear. It seems that an awful lot of (even well respected) shops are not applying the sealant/lube.

I had this problem on my car. Even worse, the mechanic that fixed the problem found two seals missing, allowing water inside the case. I could have just had my clutch parts cleaned up and reinstalled, but at 40k miles, I went ahead and had them replaced.

Another 993 owner on the 993 board had the same problem, which started after he had his transmission apart to install a LWF. Again, rusty input shaft, clutch center. He just had his parts cleaned up, sealed/lubed properly, then reinstalled. Problem fixed.

David E. of the 993 board also had the problem, and just DIY'ed the job. Once again, rusty components found on disassembly. Input shaft cleaned up, sealed/lubed properly, the car now shifts beautifully.

All this said, I understand a bad pressure plate can also cause the sticking-in-gear problem.

Good luck!

Riccardo

Thanks for your input guys.

Randall, I think I've got exactly the same problem as you had. Indeed the clutch on my car was replaced about a year ago.

Did you get the whole clutch changed? If so, exactly which components did you change? How much time do you think elapsed between the problem starting and getting it fixed? Do you think the flywheel could have been damaged as well?

Thanks

Randall G.

I agonized over whether or not I should replace all the clutch parts, or just have them cleaned up. While they had 40k miles on them, they were in near-perfect shape (corrosion not withstanding). I decided that new clutch parts meant I was 40k miles further from having to go back into the transmission, and had a new clutch kit installed. Helps that the kit was "only" around $700. Six years ago, a pressure plate alone cost almost that much.

I believe the kits are even cheaper in the U.K. ... a kit meaning pressure plate, clutch disc and throw-out bearing.

Now, on the other hand, my 993 owning friend that installed the LWF only had 8k miles on his (Porsche Motorsports $$) clutch parts. He simply had them cleaned up and reinstalled. Works perfect.

My other '95 993 owning friend that DIY'ed the job was planning on reusing parts (the car only has 37k miles, and he's on a tight budget). But then he wrote in an e-mail that the "the springs in my clutch disc seemed bad," so I suspect he may have at least replaced this part.

Well, as I wrote above, my friend that had the LWF installed only went 8k miles before having to go back into the transmission. And, I think he noticed the problem much sooner.

My own situation was a little more complicated/confusing. Suffice to say that the mechanic that installed my 993 engine and 6-speed did not clean/seal/lube components, and the problem--which existed with my old 964 5-speed--slowly got worse with the 993 6-speed. I waited about a year after the 6-speed went in before I went back into the transmission.

Not at all. The synchros are what I think you need to worry about. Here's a snip of what one of my 993 owning friends wrote with regard to potential damage caused by running with the binding input-shaft:

"What's happening is that the clutch is always dragging just a little, so the pressure never gets completely taken off of the input shaft, so instead of the synchros just braking the momentum of the input shaft, they actually have to overcome some portion of the momentum of the flywheel, and engine too. That's a pretty huge difference from what they're designed to do."

I don't believe so. Just better shifting. I think the problem really lies with the clutch not disengaging fully ... it engages just fine.

Best of luck!

Richard H

Hi Riccardo,
Cannot offer any advice on the clutch but it might be worth having JZ change the easy to get to seals while the engines out. When I bought my C2 about 1.5 years (from Camtune)ago part of the deal was a new clutch. Thankfully the all has been okay except for a small oil leak from the n/s timing chain cover. These (i believe) can only be changed with the engine out. With what I know now about the 964 I wish I had got them to replace the cheap and easy things. Seems excessive to drop the engine to clear a slight leak. Don't forget the power steering pump seal when the engines out. (one seal they did replace).
Good luck!

Richard.

Riccardo

Richard,

Thanks for your post, I appreciate the good ideas. However, fortunately there is no need to drop the engine for the clutch job, just the transmission. Phew!

regards