Removing brake backing plates--is this a problem?
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
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From: Virginia Beach, Va.
Hmmmm, MY "white 964" came with a 400HP chip! 
I dunno why, but white was one of three choices when shopping, one of the three choices was specifically the "unobtanium" inspired color...speed yellow!
HMPH! ...they only sent THREE of those over and called them RSAs. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Actually I'm jealous. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
FWIW, I just realized I never answered the original question about removing the backing plates.
With the installation of the Big Reds and 965 brake rotors (gosh they're HUGE!) of course the backing plates wouldn't fit any longer...so they're out of there! After three events on the Big Reds...there doesn't seem to be any issues with the removal/deletion of them...and I've met plenty of other folks that have removed them without issue as well.
Just so you know Joey B. - I did the same thing back in May, melted a set of brake pads into my calipers to where we couldn't easily remove them...that's what facilitated the purchase of Big Reds - the cost was justified by the pads I was going through, a set of Pagids in ONE weekend! ...PLUS the cost of rebuilding my original front calipers with new pistons.
I dunno why, but white was one of three choices when shopping, one of the three choices was specifically the "unobtanium" inspired color...speed yellow!
HMPH! ...they only sent THREE of those over and called them RSAs. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Actually I'm jealous. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
FWIW, I just realized I never answered the original question about removing the backing plates.
With the installation of the Big Reds and 965 brake rotors (gosh they're HUGE!) of course the backing plates wouldn't fit any longer...so they're out of there! After three events on the Big Reds...there doesn't seem to be any issues with the removal/deletion of them...and I've met plenty of other folks that have removed them without issue as well.
Just so you know Joey B. - I did the same thing back in May, melted a set of brake pads into my calipers to where we couldn't easily remove them...that's what facilitated the purchase of Big Reds - the cost was justified by the pads I was going through, a set of Pagids in ONE weekend! ...PLUS the cost of rebuilding my original front calipers with new pistons.
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OK, I might be game to pull the dampers off. Like I said in my previous post now my other side fronts are starting to become noisy. I replaced the dampers on the other side last year and the car has been quiet for a while, but now the other side is doing it.
Now for my question. The previous owner had the rotors, pads, and dampers replaced on the rear to get rid of the squealing (his mechanic$ recommended that repair), and they're quiet, so I don't really want to mess with them. My question is if I pull the dampers off both the fronts and leave them on the rears, will that be a problem? Considering how brakes work, my gut instinct answer to that question is "no", and I may have to add a little brake fluid to compensate for the additional piston movement because the dampers are removed, but are there any other issues to be concerned with?
Also, considering that the 964 brake system was designed with the dampers in mind, isn't it possible that with the dampers removed the piston may be moving beyond it's original design limits as the pads wear down? You guys that race and change pads all the time may never encounter that concern, but for people that use their cars for relatively normal use, isn't it possible that as the pads wear and the piston movement increases it may be putting undue strain on things like the brake seals, etc. that may have been designed for a lesser amount of piston movement?
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Now for my question. The previous owner had the rotors, pads, and dampers replaced on the rear to get rid of the squealing (his mechanic$ recommended that repair), and they're quiet, so I don't really want to mess with them. My question is if I pull the dampers off both the fronts and leave them on the rears, will that be a problem? Considering how brakes work, my gut instinct answer to that question is "no", and I may have to add a little brake fluid to compensate for the additional piston movement because the dampers are removed, but are there any other issues to be concerned with?
Also, considering that the 964 brake system was designed with the dampers in mind, isn't it possible that with the dampers removed the piston may be moving beyond it's original design limits as the pads wear down? You guys that race and change pads all the time may never encounter that concern, but for people that use their cars for relatively normal use, isn't it possible that as the pads wear and the piston movement increases it may be putting undue strain on things like the brake seals, etc. that may have been designed for a lesser amount of piston movement?
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 66
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From: Iowa
Bill,
The answers to both your questions is no. Removing the squeal dampers on the fronts and keeping them on the rears is fine. As you stated, the pistons will be a little further out to compensate for the thickness difference. No need to be concerned with the total extra travel with the squeal dampers removed.
Gary
The answers to both your questions is no. Removing the squeal dampers on the fronts and keeping them on the rears is fine. As you stated, the pistons will be a little further out to compensate for the thickness difference. No need to be concerned with the total extra travel with the squeal dampers removed.
Gary
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 45
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From: Oregon,USA
Over the summer, my C2 began to develop a lot of brake squeal, particularly from the rears. As the pads were getting thin anyway, I decided it was time to do something and changed them all away around. When I pulled off the old pads, I noticed the damper plates were really shot. I elected to pop them all out and go without. The only thing I added was a little Permatex brake lube. I've been running without the dampers for a month now and my brakes are blissfully quiet.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 11
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From: Pleasanton, CA
I understand that Metalmaster pads seem to be a reasonable choice between performance and low noise. Anyother choices out there ? I installed Jurid and they squeal like hell and make a mess of my rims.
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From: Highland Park, IL
D. Wong,
I did not have a good experience with the Metal Masters. While the dust is a breeze to clean up, they definitely offered less friction than OEM pads. And at the track, that hard, smooth compound had me pounding on the brake pedal much harder than I should have.
In the end, I wore out a set of front pads in 60 minutes of track time. One pad even lost all of its friction surface and the metal plate ended up warped with piston impressions. These impressions scored the rotor and ruined it.
Yes, I should have been more vigilant between runs, but are you kidding me? 40 minutes of track time and the BRAND NEW pads were down to metal? I'm switching to Pagids for a two-day event next weekend and hope I've found a partial answer.
I did not have a good experience with the Metal Masters. While the dust is a breeze to clean up, they definitely offered less friction than OEM pads. And at the track, that hard, smooth compound had me pounding on the brake pedal much harder than I should have.
In the end, I wore out a set of front pads in 60 minutes of track time. One pad even lost all of its friction surface and the metal plate ended up warped with piston impressions. These impressions scored the rotor and ruined it.
Yes, I should have been more vigilant between runs, but are you kidding me? 40 minutes of track time and the BRAND NEW pads were down to metal? I'm switching to Pagids for a two-day event next weekend and hope I've found a partial answer.
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From: TX
On brake pads, you have to take usage into account. If you're only driving on the street, Metalmasters or the other Axxis pads should do fine. I used them with Turbo brakes as a street pad, and they worked well. I'm a little surprised at Joey's experience on the track, as I know other 911 (1989 and earlier) drivers that use them as their dual purpose pad and are pleased with them. However, everyone brakes differently, different courses are harder on brakes than others, and there are other variables.
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Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
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From: Virginia Beach, Va.
I just returned from Charlotte (Lowe's) Motor Speedway where we used the oval with the infield road course configuration. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
In studying the track config. I figured that there wasn't going to be a need for much braking, except for the entrance to the infield course (turn 1)...which would require some hard braking for sure.
In using Pagids, Porterfield and C-Tech pads on the track, I know it takes a few good hard brakes to warm them up, and several braking zones to keep them warm. With street pads, the opposite.
SO, I opted to leave my Mintex factory pads in (Big Red calipers) and had NO issues whatsoever. I would NOT opt for these at say VIR.
So, my little "prediction" worked out well, with street pads requiring little or no warmup to work well, they did just that. Didn't need much braking there so I don't think I would've gotten my usual track pads hot enough to work well.
With that said, for those who are just starting to get their feet wet at the track...go with factory metallic pads until you're able to "pick up the pace" a bit...then go from there and decide if you want to invest in $200 brake pads for a weekend.
As for removal of the dampeners, front or rear, front and rear or any combination...I have found there is not, nor should there be any negative issues...unless, of course, this makes any squeeling you had previously - WORSE!
In studying the track config. I figured that there wasn't going to be a need for much braking, except for the entrance to the infield course (turn 1)...which would require some hard braking for sure.
In using Pagids, Porterfield and C-Tech pads on the track, I know it takes a few good hard brakes to warm them up, and several braking zones to keep them warm. With street pads, the opposite.
SO, I opted to leave my Mintex factory pads in (Big Red calipers) and had NO issues whatsoever. I would NOT opt for these at say VIR.
So, my little "prediction" worked out well, with street pads requiring little or no warmup to work well, they did just that. Didn't need much braking there so I don't think I would've gotten my usual track pads hot enough to work well.
With that said, for those who are just starting to get their feet wet at the track...go with factory metallic pads until you're able to "pick up the pace" a bit...then go from there and decide if you want to invest in $200 brake pads for a weekend.
As for removal of the dampeners, front or rear, front and rear or any combination...I have found there is not, nor should there be any negative issues...unless, of course, this makes any squeeling you had previously - WORSE!
